From Childhood Struggle to Mindful Mornings: Navigating Life w/ Tory Dewalt

In this heartfelt episode, I interview my long-time friend Tory Dewalt. We reflect on our relationships with our fathers and our roles as older siblings, contemplating the lessons we've learned and how we can share them with younger generations. Our talk spans from the difficulties of frugality, shaped by our upbringings, to the appreciation of both the good and bad experiences in life. Don't miss this profound and insightful conversation as we explore the complexities of friendship, personal growth, and mental health.

Transcript

0:00:12 - Speaker 1
Hi, welcome to another episode of Unturned Stones. Today I'm going to be interviewing my friend, Tori DeWalt. Me and Tori have been friends since sixth grade. He's been the longest friend I've actually had. 

0:00:26 - Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. Sixth grade. 

0:00:28 - Speaker 1
Yeah. So to start the episode today. I mean, you've been my best friend since sixth grade. I know everything about you for the most part, but I also I'm hoping today to get to know things a little bit deeper about you that I don't know, maybe as much about your childhood that we haven't talked about as much. For sure, yeah And so. But to start, can you kind of talk about yourself? talk a little bit about like where you came from and you know where you are now, sometimes just like a little intro on yourself. 

0:00:54 - Speaker 2
Like family life kind of. I mean, I grew up on the south side of Milwaukee, which is not necessarily the richest area, So I grew up, you know, lacking all things at some times, And then like where in the south side of Milwaukee? 

It would have been like East, southeast of like the stadium, okay. So yeah, like I've like, for instance, i remember when that first got built I was still living over there and like, so you know, real close to that, like I could, i could see it from where I was living, but like it'd be very far away. Okay, but yeah, like grew up there, you know like stuff happens down on that side, And then when I was 11, we moved to Greendale, which is then when I met you, because we were finally going to school together. 

And actually I live fairly close to my original, just other other side, now probably a better area better area. 

0:01:59 - Speaker 1
Yeah, across the freeway. 

0:02:01 - Speaker 2
Yeah, but I don't know. I've always been like an athlete growing up. I did kickboxing and soccer and track and wrestling And it's always been a big part of my life also a musician, So that's also something I've been in a lot. For those of you listening, It's pretty general, you know. 

0:02:21 - Speaker 1
so when we first met, that was probably being an athlete. That was kind of one of the first biggest things I remember about you because you had that like done some fighting training when you were younger and like you weren't still doing it, i believe at the time that we had met, but you were still playing soccer at that point. 

0:02:36 - Speaker 2
No, no, i was still kickboxing. You were Okay, yeah, you were Okay. So, for instance, my dad like trained professional fighters for a living And so, like I mean, i think I was two days old the first time they took me into the kickboxing studio, so I like literally grew up doing that And then I, you know, i have a black belt and I did that whole thing. I was maybe 14 when that finally the studio shut down just to we won't go into that but just a series of unfortunate events led to that place, you know, closing, and then that's kind of when I stopped, and then soccer definitely took over for me. 

0:03:14 - Speaker 1
Yeah, Okay, because did you you started? did you start soccer as early as you did in martial arts? 

0:03:22 - Speaker 2
Still, i played like rec league stuff when I was younger and like because I went to a parochial school So they had like a little soccer team or whatever, but then I didn't actually start playing like club, like serious soccer, until I moved. So I started playing like serious soccer when I was 11. Okay, and then continued from there. Yup, Yup. 

0:03:45 - Speaker 1
So I mean, you've kind of like randomly hit on mental health throughout our friendship Like, and we'd had times, maybe when we got older, we talked about it deeper, When in my early years of it as like I kind of got more into my mental health, I was way more in my own head and guarded about it So I didn't like necessarily reach out to you or talk to you about it. But I also knew. 

you were much more aware than most other people I knew And regrettably at the point at that time I didn't reach out to for us to talk as we were. I was building my own awareness of that mental health. Yeah, and like again, we had a couple of conversations but I was very bad about reaching out. I was very much battling my own demons in my life. 

0:04:29 - Speaker 2
To describe that situation like we were young. Like I mean, i think like for me, my worst point in time mental health wise was probably when I was about 19, 20, 21. And like I think you were going through similar stuff. At that time, honestly, I felt like, okay, sure, we could have talked about it more, but I think like even just being in each other's presence was enough. Like we just knew like okay, hey, like this is a comfort zone, like you know, whatever, like that's how I always felt about it, like I would hope you did too. 

0:04:58 - Speaker 1
But yeah, because whenever we hung out it was ultimately there was let's have fun, let's just enjoy. Let's enjoy whatever we're doing, let's go enjoy ourselves, yeah. 

0:05:08 - Speaker 2
Or just like I think we could feel it, like we knew each other well enough that I could feel your energy, like I know okay, yeah, he's kind of just having some anxiety or whatever. He's tense right now. Like just let it happen, like just give him the space to do what he's got to do to you know whatever situation, stuff like that would arise, or like vice versa, like sometimes it's just like I got no energy to do you know whatever right now And we'll just kind of, you know, pick me up, okay, let's go, kind of thing. Like it was just an unspoken thing, I think quite a bit. 

0:05:35 - Speaker 1
That's true, and now that you just think about that from sixth grade on, like how long we've known each other, how much time we spent together, it makes sense that, like I've definitely gotten a feeling for how to be around you and how and you've got a feeling for how to be around me because I 100% I'm not just like a stable mood, 100% of the time person. 

0:05:55 - Speaker 2
I fluctuate, and how much I show it can fluctuate too, right? 

0:05:59 - Speaker 1
So you've definitely learned that and you've spent enough time around me that like, yeah, we're, we know how to like level up and down with each other, right, right, yeah. 

0:06:09 - Speaker 2
It's like, if I can feel, when you're feeling this thing and I'm going to like maybe not address it directly, but I'm going to do something to try and help, like alleviate it in a different way, you know like, okay, this is stressful, like, hey, john, i'm like, don't worry, it's just this. You know like, because you tend to get like a little something minute can grow bigger too quickly. 

0:06:28 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, for sure, yeah. 

0:06:30 - Speaker 2
Just level it out, dude. We're going to. You know, get to our destination or whatever. It is like uh. You know, kind of like uh. When we went to that Packer game and we locked the keys in the car, you freaked out a little bit. 

0:06:45 - Speaker 1
I I were losing tailgating time. 

0:06:47 - Speaker 2
I know you were very worried, but I was like we're still like, we're going to drink. We slammed a lot of beers before we went in. 

0:06:54 - Speaker 1
We made it work. We made it work. 

0:06:56 - Speaker 2
Yeah, like it was still like totally out of fine time And we watched Aaron Rodgers have a perfect passer rating for that game Wow. It's an event that uh not going to get to see often That's a good point. 

0:07:07 - Speaker 1
That was a. that was a hell of a game for him, right. So for you, when would you say, like your awareness of, like seeing your behavior, seeing how your mental health reflects in your daily life, started coming through and like in a sway that, like you noticed it and maybe wanted to make changes to it. 

0:07:27 - Speaker 2
So I think there were like crux points in my life that certain things happened or like different awareness is like bloomed for me. I think, like you know, my childhood was not always uh, you know rainbows and whatever. So I think a lot of times I was constantly like trying to like my mind turned into like a tactical chess match all the time when it came to issues, and that also applied to, like you know, fighting with my parents about this, and it was always like trying to figure out how, okay, i just did this and this result made this and I don't want to do that again. So I was always thinking like how can I be better at this? and trying to figure out ways to just feel good. You know, like cause I was kind of picked on as a kid too, so it was just kind of like I never really felt like I was like a safe spot, no matter where I went. Like I was just kind of always defensive And I think in a sense that made me very like stoic and cold as a younger kid. 

Like I mean I'm sure you remember like I I talk much more now than I did when I was younger Like I was very just. Like you know, there were points in time where it'd be like one word answers, you know, and so I think that stuff was always on my mind just to begin with. But I think, going back to that twenties, you know just had some, you know, not so great things happen to me And I think I got like so depressed and so bad for so long And I was, like, you know, suicidal and all those things, and I think I just there was a point it was like a year and a half of that, i think, around that amount of time that I felt that way. 

0:09:01 - Speaker 1
Like early twenties. 

0:09:03 - Speaker 2
Yeah. 

0:09:04 - Speaker 1
Like 1920 right in that area. 

0:09:07 - Speaker 2
Okay, okay, so late teens, early twenties, yeah, So I felt so bad throughout that time And finally, like something just clicked in my head And I was just like man, is this life even worth living like this? Like what's the point if I feel like shit every day? And it just clicked and I just decided I'm going to be happy And that was a huge, you know, growing turning point. 

Obviously, it like took effort after that point, but yeah, it was just like that click moment of just like what's the point in going through my day sad and hurtful and all these things and all of that, and I just decided like I don't want to live like that, i want to feel okay. 

And so that like triggered a, got into meditation and that helped tremendously deal with like the anxiety and depression and all those things and just like worked my way out of it on my own, which was like a very you know, like I would not necessarily advise everybody else to do that that way. If someone was asking me like you're not alone, you don't literally have to do it alone, i chose to do it. It worked for me. Like I can tell you some of those things, but you're not alone. Like talk to somebody, gain information from them, just like we're doing right now. You know, having those conversations can be tough, but be, you know, in addition to just being happy, is be vulnerable. I think is something I learned even much later than to, but that's just an evolution going down the road. 

0:10:42 - Speaker 1
A little tangent here, because me and you are like extremely similar in the under under the hood ways. Like you know, i, like In high school, i was more like a jockey athlete, while you're more of a musician and you're more of on the art side of things. If you have to describe our personalities, that's how we differentiate a little bit. I'm a little bit more of a bro, you're a little bit more of an arty guy or creative guy. I should say What's a hipster? A hipster. 

0:11:21 - Speaker 2
Slightly hipster Slightly hipster. 

0:11:23 - Speaker 1
That's very, very breaking it down to as bare minimum as I could, But under the hood ways our brains operate very similarly. 

I think some of that came from. We had difficult childhoods in different ways that we both, i think, learned to deal with by being in our own heads a lot. Some of the things you describe about how you kind of in your mind you start looking at everything like, is this decision going to get me further? Is this going to hurt me? I want to 100% relate to that. With that, i looked at my own journey of feeling my own mental health. I dealt with it myself because I was so used to my entire childhood being in my own head dealing with stuff myself. It sounds like you kind of very much went through that exact same thing. 

0:12:05 - Speaker 2
Yeah, actually that's a perfect point because it kind of back pedaling. I didn't really feel safe. Wherever I was At home was not a good spot for me. My friends on the block I was the youngest one. Naturally I can't run and play with squirt guns as good as the other guys or whatever. Because I was the next youngest person to me out of the friend group was still two years older than me. I was very much the youngest, which is big at that age. Yeah, right, yeah, when you're five or six and you're playing with eight-year-olds, that's a big difference. And then same thing in school. 

I didn't want to ask for help because I was so used to people being not helpful. Instead I just relied. I was confident in my own. Even to backtrack again, i think kickboxing and doing those martial arts was definitely. That's a very singular sport. You're competing against another person. That's very much how I started viewing things, like, look, if I screw up, this guy's going to punch me in the face and that sucks, so don't do that. And then you apply that concept to everything. I can't screw up, otherwise this is going to happen to me. It was just you compound that through a lot of aspects of life. 

0:13:33 - Speaker 1
Yeah, wow, yeah. Again, that makes sense why we got along, because even when I first mentioned sixth grade I remember you were quiet, you didn't say much. But I think I also remember I was very goofy and silly because I was trying to be me, because in fifth grade was weird that first year moving in, but sixth grade felt a little bit more comfortable. I was trying to just be goofy or sillier, be more fun, and you were probably the one person that just made me feel the judge the least and accepted the most. 

0:14:10 - Speaker 2
Yeah, just like you're going to be, whoever you are. I mean, going back to that point in time, you had just moved here from Jordan. 

0:14:17 - Speaker 1
It was about a year that I'd been there. 

0:14:19 - Speaker 2
Right And I think for you you were still figuring out some English terms, you still had a little bit of an accent. It made you a little bit of an outcast in a way, because you were just a little different at that time specifically. And so, yeah, again, i was that, just in a different sense. So, yeah, it's a very relatable for sure, and just being comfortable being not the average. 

0:14:52 - Speaker 1
So let's touch on this first. In your 20s you got into meditation to help you start learning to just view life in a way that I should be happy if there's nothing to stop you from being happy. You started that through meditation. What even got you into meditation to start? Was it reading a book? Was it somebody who recommended it? 

0:15:14 - Speaker 2
No, let me think about it. It was a very self-driven thing. I was aware of what meditation was from martial arts Like I didn't practice it or anything during those times, but I was aware it existed. 

0:15:30 - Speaker 1
It is something that's definitely talked about in martial arts right. 

0:15:33 - Speaker 2
The ability to concentrate. Hold your focus and attention. 

0:15:37 - Speaker 1
Right, yeah. 

0:15:39 - Speaker 2
Again. Like you're fighting somebody, you lose attention. You're going to get smacked in the face. 

0:15:42 - Speaker 1
Don't do that, it's not a pleasant time. 

0:15:46 - Speaker 2
I didn't do a lot of that. I was pretty good, I'm really. I'm going to be honest I don't know if I remember how I really I think some of it was almost just self-taught. I figured out how to do certain things. I knew certain things had to transpire to meditate, and I almost kind of was just doing it on my own and almost just self-teaching through experimentation at that point, Because there's definitely things I did where I thought I had the concept right and now I know that I didn't quite have it. It's definitely grown, but there's a lot of pieces of it that I did naturally get correct And implemented right away and it was highly, extremely useful to me. 

0:16:38 - Speaker 1
So what do you feel like changed for you at first? Was it reactivity? Was it like to emotional things that happened? What is it that changed for you by starting meditation? 

0:16:52 - Speaker 2
Initially it was to. I was specifically using it in moments of high anxiety so that I could get that to go away, because through that time I might go almost all day while having a panic attack for hours on end, and so it was very much a tool to bring that down. Initially for me, that was my first use of it, for sure, and so it was just like a practice in my mind. I took on the art of it where I would imagine a scenery, so for me I classically used a waterfall, and so then you sit there in your mind, after you've controlled your breathing a little bit and gotten into it, and then you start building an area you're in and like, okay, you got to think what are the colors, What am I hearing, what do I smell? And just by identifying each one of those pieces, it took my concentration to those instead of being on anxiety and it's like a calming environment. 

0:17:56 - Speaker 1
So then you just naturally start bringing yourself down And that was my first thing that I practiced frequently And realizing that you could at will be able to harness your attention to shift it off of anxiety and get yourself to kind of calm down Right. 

0:18:16 - Speaker 2
Now in my older age I've read things where I think people use it and they'll do it in the sense of like picking things out in the room you're in and stuff. So for me I was kind of just building a room in my head. But yeah, it's called grounding. 

0:18:28 - Speaker 1
Yes, there we go Yeah. 

0:18:29 - Speaker 2
I knew there was a term. 

0:18:30 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:18:32 - Speaker 2
So I was using grounding, but I was just building a scenery in my head and I didn't know it was grounding. Again, it was just kind of I naturally just kind of figured this stuff out on my own. It was very odd, But I did that a lot. And then it was how fast could I get it to go from point A to point B? and just kept practicing that until I kind of moved on into other things. 

0:18:56 - Speaker 1
Did you have any like during this time of like, growth and kind of change for you Like? did you start tying any realizations back to your childhood or anything like that? 

0:19:08 - Speaker 2
forgiveness was a huge part of it, just letting all that stuff go. Because another like viewpoint I very much took was does this matter? And that's what I think drives a lot of anxiety, is, what am I even having anxiety about? Does it actually matter? And so, you know, thinking about my childhood, for instance, you know, like that stuff's gone, it's in the past, like it's not affecting me anymore, it's not doing anything, just let it. Like you can recognize it, it's a thing, it's tangible, it happened, but let it go, like it's not serving you any purpose, just leave it behind where it belongs. 

And so, just applying that aspect to like everything I was doing, you know, you know somebody during that time hit my car, you know it's parked on the street, somebody hit it And like, of course you're going to be a little angry about it, but it's just like I can't control that. It already happened. I can only move forward, so just let that piece go. You know, it's just about just identifying those things And like does being angry or having anxiety about this thing serve me a purpose? Is it actually helping me? 

0:20:25 - Speaker 1
You know. but so like I 100% agree you should let things go in your child, like I don't think you should hold on to things from your childhood in a way that's hurting you by definitely 100% agree with you on that. 

But what I'm talking about is in more, in a sense, of somebody hitting your car and getting angry about it. I think any rational person can understand that We're talking about like little things. Every person has like their behaviors or like their fingerprint, and those behaviors are based on like things that happen in their childhood and how they learn to react to certain things. So like it's more like how you maybe were in a relationship, if in a relationship with somebody, how you might have argued like that, like relating that to, like how you might have seen your parents argue or how you might have argued with your mom, or like stuff like that. 

0:21:10 - Speaker 2
Right, yeah, so like, kind of like, continuing there is just like. also identifying those aspects of like whilst letting go of that thing freed me to do something that I maybe hadn't done before. So like getting towards, like I was very quiet all the time And it's because I, you know, had that trauma of if I spoke, people made fun of me, if I spoke out of turn, i got punished at home or whatever that might have been, and so letting that go and realizing that that result was not necessarily always because of me myself, you know, you're going forward and now I'm able to freely speak. Actually, the funny thing is, like I started working for Starbucks at that time too, which is a very like social environment, and like was actually like crucial in my development because it definitely changed during that period. 

Right, Cause I went from like I love coffee and I'll make it and whatever. But, like you know, I don't necessarily want to talk to every customer coming in. 

That's just not who I am. And so then I kind of like you know, my manager at the time was like well, that's part of what we do, and started like putting me in spots where it like forced me to do that, which was like okay fine. Like I kind of had already identified that like that was something I needed to work on And it's like okay fine, if I already have to be at work, we might as well make some progress doing you know something else for my life too. So it's just learning how to slowly talk to people. You know more and more how to identify how to start a conversation. I hadn't hardly done that before in my life. I was always just a very like speak when spoken to. For sure, it was kind of how I lived prior to that point. 

So, yeah, i like definitely identifying like those things in my childhood, what caused them and then what needs to get replaced. Or even just from being not wealthy or, like you know, relatively poor, you live in an area in your mind of like I have to be very frugal with everything because my resources are extremely limited. And then even in adult life, i started getting further and further along. I realized I was still being very, very frugal and limited, even though I had the means to do. You know this or that, and so, just again, like that applied to them. This is now that doesn't matter anymore to me. It was just like what am I letting go, and how does that affect me going into the future? Being able to identify those is a skill for sure. I don't know if that's even myself or anybody. Can you get all of them? No, that's what like a therapist is for, i suppose. What do? 

0:23:53 - Speaker 1
you think, like people coming from lower income, you know in your childhood like that definitely has an effect on you. It has an effect on you. That like bleeds in your adulthood that you either like get rid of it or you kind of stick surround on you. Yeah, what's your opinion of? like the little ways? like would you, could you speak in ways that maybe it affected you? or you think like it affects people Because I do generally think that it affects everybody who comes from a lower income childhood, even if they someday get out of it that like there's, there's little tangible things that always stick around because you're used to living in this like survival mode. Like everything, everything counts, yes, everything. Oh, don't throw that away. You might need that. 

0:24:33 - Speaker 2
Yeah for sure. Or I didn't eat all my food on my plate, like that's actually still something I kind of do, where like if I go to a restaurant and this amount of food is put in front of me, it's gone. Like I'm eating all of it. Like very rarely does something come home with me. 

0:24:47 - Speaker 1
Yeah, it's just because of that habit of that thing. 

0:24:50 - Speaker 2
But I mean, even when I was younger, like when you're first driving your car, you're like, oh, i got to pay for gas And I don't remember thinking like, okay, every time I hit the brakes that means I wasted energies, i'm trying to not do that. And you're like you get to your older and you're like that's like petty. 

You just don't stuff like that, just all those silly little things. I mean. They're like clothes too. Like I still, i definitely still have clothes from when I was like the younger that I like, still will wear sometimes, like you know, like, like I still have those. They're still in use. They've been in use for, you know, 15 years. Like definitely could get retired. 

0:25:35 - Speaker 1
But they're serving their purpose. Yeah, exactly. 

0:25:39 - Speaker 2
Yeah, where I think some other people would be like oh, this thing is just you know whatever and toss it, you know but like beyond, like the kind of like that general idea, there's anxiety behind all that too. Right, well, so, like with the gas, like you know what I mean Like you're like, can I afford to? you know, get to this and that, it's all those. I think you beat yourself up a little bit trying to like, make it. 

0:26:05 - Speaker 1
I almost think it's, it's an overload of your always opportunities. What opportunities am I missing? What opportunities am I missing to save money or to make money to save money or to make money. 

0:26:15 - Speaker 2
Right. 

0:26:15 - Speaker 1
Right, that becomes like a rat race in your brain. 

0:26:18 - Speaker 2
Yeah, and I think the piece that people miss when they're in that mindset is the opportunity cost. And that's what got it out for me. Because, like, can I change the oil on my car? Of course I can. That's not a very hard job But it's a little cheaper, but it's gonna take me some time. and then I gotta figure out a vessel to get the oil to the dump and You go through those extra processes and I kind of realized, like that This is a very minute concept but like doing that DIY thing, sometimes You're like, well, how much time did I just spend doing that, as opposed to just paying the extra $15 to go To you know valve lean station and having them do it in a matter of 30 minutes. I don't think. 

0:27:01 - Speaker 1
I don't think that's a minute concept. I think that's a big concept. 

0:27:05 - Speaker 2
Well, the concept, but this example is minute. Yeah, yeah, maybe I Phrased incorrectly, but just that alone. And you're like, well, yeah, of course, like, $15 just saved me Maybe an hour or two of time, you know, of course. You know, yeah, i'm just gonna spend that and then I can go do whatever else. And it's not only the monetary Portion you're missing, it's the, the time and energy and effort on your own, like you know, emotional being too. Like You know, think about it. 

If I came in the house from a day of, you know, changing the brakes on the car, which is a little bit more, you know, labor-intensive, can do it, but I'm exhausted, i don't want to do anything else. Am I going to Use any energy to grow as a person? Oh, like, what's that? So, like the triangle, the pyramid of needs, there's a name for it. Do you know what I'm talking about? I think so. Yes, yeah, it starts with an L, but I could be wrong. But it's kind of that thing where Now I'm not getting passed to the next level because I just spent all my energy on the level I was on, just trying to save, you know, 30 bucks doing this thing, and I don't think everybody realizes that where, if you Don't do the things you're not an expert at or don't have the tools to do quickly or whatever That's gonna be. You know I keep using car examples, but it applies to a bunch of things you know, like you know. 

0:28:28 - Speaker 1
I mean anything with a home, a lot of projects with a house, especially bigger projects right, yeah, like I Just had my windows done at my house. 

0:28:37 - Speaker 2
Do I know how to put a window in myself? Of course, could I have done all of the windows in my house in a day, like they did? No, yeah, not even close. So instead I spent that time doing. You know, whatever it's, your time has value as well, and and your energy and emotions and doing those things is Just as important as saving the 15 physical dollars. You can see in front of yourself, and I Think some people that I know struggle with that because they just your emotions and energy aren't a tangible thing I can hold in front of myself and they just don't see it. Which which can be tough. 

0:29:17 - Speaker 1
It's kind of like the idea of taking time to yourself because you're, you know you're, your emotional energy matters and like People don't understand that. But like, well, no, because I'm protecting my emotional energy, i need that rest day. But somebody's like, well, you have the feed time, can't you do this? 

0:29:31 - Speaker 2
Well, no, like yeah, specifically doing nothing right like, yeah, me personally, i have, like there's one day, like for me It's Tuesdays. Right now, tuesday night, i do nothing, i get done with work and that is just. I'm chilling, i'm, i'm watching Netflix, eat and whatever. Like that time I just have set for myself like that's what I do on this day, to just recuperate and give myself that time to feel and be and just relax. You know, if needed for sure, and I think that's Something everybody could do more. 

Actually, just I just saw something somewhere and somebody, uh, like on the internet somewhere, some little clip or something, and some guy was talking about how, uh, you can get addicted to stress And I was like it's an interesting concept, yeah, of you. And just in that scarcity mindset, you kind of get used to I'm not doing something or being productive And so I'm not right. You know I'm not. You're, you're belittling yourself if you're not doing something productive or good At that time, and so you're jumping from one thing to the other and as soon as you're not stressed out, you're like, oh crap, why am I not stressed out by doing something? You're looking for the next thing to stress yourself out and it, you know, you just kind of wind up in this big circular chain of just always being stressed out, and you really got to figure out how to. Why are you getting stressed? How do you break that chain? And I think just Realizing that time set aside for yourself is is just as valuable as the time you spend doing something. 

0:31:06 - Speaker 1
You spend doing things as well so, like I'm assuming like you're still meditator right now, and then You, you know you take like Tuesdays to yourself to try to like just enjoy yourself. Do you do anything else specifically for your mental health actively now? Or like, do you, um, i know, like you, you read uh, and you, i know you've also like you, you don't necessarily like you'll read nonfiction, you read kind of self help, self improvement type books too. Um, do you still do that as much lately? 

0:31:35 - Speaker 2
Sometimes I'll come and go. It might be I'm like how much I'm interested in the book I have. But I kind of have like a morning routine, like I wake up every day same time, like you know, go through all my little Care things. I do yoga for you know X amount of time and then I read until I am ready for work. So it's just kind of like a thing I'm built in and like that's just all, like I'm not looking at my phone, i'm not doing whatever, i'm just completely in my head. 

You know, going through those motions, like when you build a routine for yourself that's so set in stone that you don't have to make decisions. It allows your mind to free up and think about Whatever else is going on in your life or to plan out your day and just relax. In those moments, while you're just Well, your body is kind of on autopilot. Your mind is maybe, you know, doing something else, and I think that's been. I've been doing that for a very, very long time. I've been doing that for a very, very long time. Do you do that seven? 

0:32:28 - Speaker 1
days a week. 

0:32:30 - Speaker 2
Maybe not on the weekends because I'm not like on a schedule, but yeah, during the week for sure, 100% of the time so Monday through Friday. You always find yourself doing that no matter what, i literally will do the same things in the same order every single day, like down to like. I get up, drink water, rush teeth, like it's always exactly in the same order every day, do you find you? 

0:32:50 - Speaker 1
get up every morning I'm feeling the same. Whatever that feeling is, but feeling the same every morning, or do you like? do you ever like wake up some mornings a little more more energized, some mornings a little bit more tired? Do you kind of flux or do you like stay pretty steady? 

0:33:04 - Speaker 2
I go up and down, but I think that's caused by other things. I mean, that might just be, you know, life happening like I go out and, you know, don't get home late, because of whatever, i don't sleep particularly well all the time. Well, once I fall asleep, i'm fine, but how quickly I fall asleep is a whole different story, and so that definitely affects it too, for sure like what, um, what helped you stick to that routine at first, when you would wake up and you'd have some good morning, some bad mornings? 

0:33:30 - Speaker 1
Like what helped you get make it dehabit long enough that it's safe to have it outside of just straight Discipline, because I think discipline goes so far. But like, yeah, was it just finding? um, i guess what I'm kind of getting at is like do you use other strategies? like maybe like What's the minimum you'll do to start and then kind of built from there? or like Does you like do one at a time that you added and then eventually added the next one after a couple weeks or something? 

0:33:57 - Speaker 2
uh, it's built up over a very long time or maybe has changed through the years, because Me saying I do the same things in the same word every day, i mean I'm talking like high school. I started doing that, like that was a long, long time ago. I can't even tell you What I started with, to be honest, but Like building some of those other things, then it was uh, um, you know, like reading or doing yoga, like this is good for my body. I'm starting off my day relaxed And already feeling accomplished because I got something done that was meaningful and useful to myself. And you're just okay. Now you're fresh, you're starting your day, you just go through those motions. It's just a very therapeutic time. I mean, it's maybe only 45 minutes worth of time, but Do you? 

0:34:45 - Speaker 1
find it effortful or relaxing, or the effort is not more than it relaxes you, or you know what I mean. Somebody can get up in the morning and go for a 10 mile run and it just be a miserable effort as opposed to an effort that might feel kind of good. 

0:35:03 - Speaker 2
Yeah. So actually coming to where I'm at now, i had tried other things throughout time and just realized like, hey, i can't do this thing, it's not working for me. So for everybody, like 10 mile run, i have a stationary bike. I used to hop on the bike and I just realized, man, my body does not like to get going like this first thing in the morning. It's just this is making me un-energetically, like I feel guilty if I don't get all the way through it or whatever. So like that one kind of wasn't working for me, so I, you know, lopped that off or some other examples like that where I'll do something but I might not like do it. Well, i think that's where I landed on yoga more because it's less intense, more stretching, more breathing and all that stuff which was just more rhythmic to me. I could just flow through it instead of having to have grit every morning to get through whatever you set yourself up for. So don't set yourself up for failure. It's really like if you're failing at it consistently, maybe try something else. 

0:36:08 - Speaker 1
Yeah, it took me years of like. I tried doing morning workouts, i tried doing morning runs, i tried doing some morning lifting. 

It took me years probably, like this, like last year, year and a half, that like I accepted. I think I just like getting up and going for a walk in a treadmill in the gym in the morning and then I leave. Yeah, maybe I'll do like a little stretching and I'm literally like that's not what I do in the mornings. I'm like especially working from home and not having the routine of getting to like leave the house to go to an office, work at an office, come back home. Now I find like I really need to like do something in the morning because I missed like I like need to leave the house to start my day. 

Otherwise, i had really hard times of switching over to my desk. Yeah, so to me, yeah, i was like, okay, i just get up there, go to gym, walk in a treadmill Don't feel guilty about it because I needed something I could do, no matter whether it's cold, hot, you know like I need something I could, because it's almost. I need to take the decision out of it, not what am I going to wear today because of the weather. 

0:36:57 - Speaker 2
Because I don't want to. 

0:36:58 - Speaker 1
I don't want to, You know, so I was like if I always just go to gym, I always know the temperature in there is the same, i could wear the exact same thing. You know, it took decision out of it. It's like now. now it's like there's a comfort and when I get up and I'm like in the morning, no matter how groggy. 

0:37:10 - Speaker 2
I am? 

0:37:11 - Speaker 1
I'm like I'm just going to go to gym and walk on a treadmill. 

0:37:13 - Speaker 2
Right, especially when it gets into such routine. It doesn't matter how groggy I am, i'm still just mindlessly going through this stuff. It gives your time, your brain time, to like wake up and get going too, without having to like operate right off the bat. You know Well. 

0:37:29 - Speaker 1
Huberman says you should wait 90 minutes after you wake up to consume caffeine. So I'm like, but I think more importantly, i think, than just waiting 90 minutes to consume caffeine is actually probably using that time to do something that's a little bit effortful. So it like action, kind of like forces your body to release your brain, or release some dopamine to start your morning, especially as somebody with ADHD and you need to kind of discover you just now, have it into yourself, yeah recently discovered. 

So like that's definitely like to get up in the morning. Getting up and moving is like the best way to get some natural dopamine like started, before you can like force it with some stimulant or whatever you know, or some caffeine, yeah, um, but yeah, i do that, like I do think there's something to it, no matter how miserable you are. 

0:38:12 - Speaker 2
Just like getting up and getting that like little bit of right when it's a task that's not so labor intensive that you need to make a choice, or so intense that you need to push yourself through it. It's just needs to be something you can go through and do without really having to think about it too much. Um, yeah, so I guess, for me it kind of like it keeps not I'm thinking about it Like my routine kind of like how much my mind has to work keeps ramping up with each step. So, like the first step is just you know your, you know drink water, you know get in the shower or whatever. Like that's all stuff, you don't have to think about that. 

And then I go to yoga. I'm still just following directions. I'm not thinking about, oh, which one am I going to do? Whatever, i'm just kind of okay, we're doing this, one, move on. You know, i'm just watching videos while I'm doing it. Um, super easy, it's like YouTube is awesome, yeah, um, but then like. And then I moved to reading, which is all again like another little kind of like I have to read and think a little bit more. Like, yeah, i kind of kind of ramp up as I'm going until I get to like okay, now I have to work and I'm already going. Um, yeah, very useful. 

0:39:22 - Speaker 1
So then, do you do anything at like, uh, at night or during the day? Otherwise, for you know that like kind of helps you Like, do you do any breathing during the day? Do you do anything like right before bed to help sleep? 

0:39:34 - Speaker 2
I've tried stuff before bed to go to sleep and nothing's really landed with me. I tried meditating, um, and then I kind of started realizing, well, i just cleared my mind out to do all this and it just emptied everything, and now there's just a blank space that my mind wants to fill, and then as soon as I fill it with one thought, that thing gets turned into another, and turned into another, and turned into another, and then it's just, and then I lay in bed just just cranking all that stuff out. So that that was a no go. Um, i don't know, i think I just like now, i kind of just like, okay, turn the lights off, you know, like, start ramping down before I go to sleep, and that's a little more helpful. 

But throughout the day I don't know if I necessarily do anything, like on a routine per se. Um, it's more just like, maybe if I feel like I need it, or like you know, if something happened recently like I don't know, like a death or something you know what I mean Like, okay, you know I need to pause sometimes and kind of, just, like you know, allow that to happen, or, you know, allow myself to feel or alleviate that or something, although like I do stop and do like small things sometimes, like um, caffeine, for instance, like a very into coffee A lot of times, like that first, like cup or sip or whatever. Like I do kind of like pause and just like really taste it, stop. You know, like you don't just slam stuff all the time and just constantly be like just stop and just like really feel what that is, you know, or what have you. I think that like just a little stuff like that, um, i will do just kind of naturally, uh, and that's nice, keeps you calm and even keel throughout the day. 

0:41:21 - Speaker 1
It's like trying to be more present. 

0:41:23 - Speaker 2
Yeah, just be mindful of like the actions you're taking, like slow down or like even just being able to identify when you're sped up. Um, it is like a hard skill, like it's just to even realize like man, i am just trying to move out a million miles an hour, my head's going really fast. Just stop for a minute, slow down, for sure. Yeah, be intentional. A walk for in the morning. Just be intentional with each step as you're going. Just, you know, feel what it feels like to be walking outside or whatever it is. Um, i think that's just another like shape or form of meditation, though, for sure. 

0:42:00 - Speaker 1
Yeah That you're using. So you've kind of like you've talked about, like you've had a lot of forgiveness for your childhood and like moving past it. Would you like, is there anything that you like? would you say like you wouldn't change anything about your childhood and like even like your later teens cause it's obviously made you who you are now, like has sharpened your brain to the level it is now of like how you deal with things and how you interact with life Um, like, is there anything that you'd go back and like tell your 13 year old self to like have deal any different with the pain that you might have had back then? 

0:42:34 - Speaker 2
I mean, if I could have learned some of this stuff earlier, like sure, yeah, that would have been great, i don't necessarily regret anything, or yeah, i don't. Of course everybody wants, like an easier life, like maybe there was an easier way to get to these same conclusions. But I don't know. I'm kind of an advocate of like, if you go through, like back through life and you try to like, well, what could I have done? and stuff like, especially when you're going that far back like, you can drive yourself mad thinking about all that stuff. Like the reality is it happened, that's what's happened. You can't change it, it's already there. All you can do is analyze it and learn from it. And if you've done that well, you know, then I mean you can always go back, you remember it, you know, but it's served its purpose, it's there, it's done. 

You know, like I'm thankful I got to learn some of these things because, like, there's a bunch of people who, if you don't have a trial to go through, you don't learn anything from it at all. So you do have to face trials. Or, like you know the concept of like good and bad, i think are very like needed. And I think in this case where you can't realize how good things are until you have felt bad things. So I'm thankful that some of those things were not so great, so that they allow me to feel what is good at this point, you know, so that you have that concept of a variable, Because if everything's always good, you don't know what is, because you've just always lived in it. 

0:44:11 - Speaker 1
I mean, i think that's very profound because it's so deep rooted in a lot of things that, like we're seeing like come out right now and like culture and the social media, where people like almost forgot how good things are, yeah, and our finding things smaller and smaller and bigger. You know things to like fight about and argue about, but, like man, we have it so good compared to what we had 50 years ago, let alone 100 or 200 years ago. 

0:44:40 - Speaker 2
So like I've thought this way for a long time. But I think it's also funny because I just recently watched an episode of Joe Rogan with David Cho. 

0:44:49 - Speaker 1
Oh yeah, I want to watch that one. 

0:44:50 - Speaker 2
And he spoke about like. He's like, yeah, whenever I feel like I'm just getting too, like you know, prissy or whatever, i'm feeling bad about my life, he'd go back to Africa just to like bare bones it, like you know, just go back to the absolute, like this is the bare basics of everything, and then when you come back to America, you're like, oh man, like got running water is awesome, or whatever. You're like that's probably a little more extreme, but yeah, definitely He's an interesting guy for sure. 

0:45:19 - Speaker 1
But I think extremes are good to make examples sometimes of right. That like, yeah, like we have things so good even right now compared to people who are having a live on this planet, let alone what we would have had to deal with 100 years ago. That like appreciate the good. And I do think it's hard to appreciate the good without seeing the bad or having gone through some bad. 

0:45:43 - Speaker 2
Yeah, or like I always think about, like you know, just thought experiments, like going into the future and things are so good, like are they even going to know that it's good anymore? Like when, when you know, eventually robots and AI are going to like take over, right, Like they're just going to do everything. We're not going to need jobs anymore because they're just going to be able to supply everything for us. 

And our brains are going to turn into mush because we're not going to know what it's like to have worked a day in our life or you know, or newborns at that point, and it's just like, are they even going to realize, like, how nice that is? Are they going to be able to appreciate it at all? I'm just curious, like that's without something to struggle through, like they might not feel good about anything. They might just kind of be zombies a little bit, like you're just kind of mindlessly like do you feel anything anymore? 

0:46:33 - Speaker 1
when it gets to that point, my hope is kids of the future generations will fight back against it, almost you know, and like Turnpatter. Well, it's almost like how, like the 90s fashion, especially for women, had like. It's coming back right now, like there's eventually there's gonna be like this, like turnaround of people being like I, being off the phone and not being on social media. 

0:46:55 - Speaker 2
Yeah, there could be like that counterculture of like oh well, we're gonna go back to like I wanna figure out how to farm or whatever you know like, really go back. You know like Flip phones and farming. Yeah, become Amish or something, Yeah, yeah, like there might be like a counterculture or something. Yeah, that'd be. I hope we get to live to see that. Me too, i'm curious to see what happens. What happens. 

0:47:19 - Speaker 1
So one last point I want to touch on before we end the podcast, because this is like coincidentally, the fact that this happened is just stupid, but it happened, which is when I was 14, my mom had Jason. 

Yes, And two months later you had your mom had Kellen, yeah. So like we were in this like weird situation of like I didn't know anybody else who had a baby brother when they were just entering high school besides you, yeah, and like that was a whole weird thing to go through after spending most of my life with my sister being like two children, always just the older, younger one. There's never, you know, i not that I had any middle child, obviously because I was already like old enough, but like all of a sudden I was a middle child because we were, we had a baby. Yeah, you know, i'm like it changed the dynamics of the family. It changed stuff for how things operated. It changed my family, for sure, our trajectory in little ways. I'm sure it had that effect on you guys. Certainly I'd never like really talked to you about that. 

I mean we talked about a little bit, but like I bet yeah, like, could you kind of touch on what that was like for you to experience your parents having a baby when you were so old and you already had two younger siblings? I had one older sibling, You already had to be the oldest, And then you know another baby was coming and you kind of you already kind of like took on a responsibility to rule, I think, with your siblings too. 

0:48:43 - Speaker 2
Yeah, i mean that for sure is another difference between our lives. The dynamic of that is probably quite different because you had, you know, your older sister, lisa, and you know, i'm not sure necessarily, what your home life was with Jason all the time, but, like for me, i was the oldest, so you know, and there was a bigger age gap between me and my next oldest sibling than you and Lisa for sure, yeah, so that was a little different in itself. 

And then my mom has rapid bipolar And so she, you know, going back to mental health, like she's just not always functioning all the time. So I kind of already did a lot as a child growing up, just trying to take care of the others. Actually, funny story, my brother's wife asked if they should give me a father's day gift the other day. No, that's just, you know, but again, like that's kind of the role I was in, like hilarious things, but no, but so like I think Kellen and I very much, i was another parent for him. I took like out of my mom, dad and I I probably spent the most time with him when he was younger. Like I mean, even when we brought him home, like I remember I was the one sleeping in his room. You know I'd get up with him in the night and stuff, because my mom didn't come home from the hospital right away And then, you know, was still recovering and my dad obviously had to go to work and stuff, and so I do remember doing that like quite a bit and just having to fill that parental role And I think that also made me like grow up a little quicker. 

I didn't. You know, i wasn't like quite as irresponsible of a teenager, i wasn't running around doing quite as much dumb you know crap as the others, because I was just already like responsible for some other being's life to a certain degree. So it definitely specifically with him because there was a big enough age gap where I could be completely responsible for him at time, where I still took care of the other two, but I was younger and you know I maybe wasn't completely alone, but I was doing him with a 14 year age gap. Certainly I took on that role, for sure, and it changed who I was a little bit, yeah, for sure. Just trying to think about it. 

0:51:19 - Speaker 1
I mean, you already kind of had been in that role, obviously with your two other siblings. So it's like it changed you, but it's not like it completely changed your trajectory, because you had already had to kind of mature a little faster. Yeah this probably forced you to mature even faster. 

0:51:35 - Speaker 2
Yeah, like exponentially more is what I'm getting at Exponentially more. 

You would think Okay Well because there's only a three year age gap between me and my oldest well, my oldest younger brother. So you know, him and I were kind of together. I didn't necessarily take care of him so much, but then my sister is another three years, so there's six years between her and I. And so you know, especially because my mom, my mom's mental health stuff really started when I was about like eight or nine. So I was kind of old enough to already like yeah, i know how to make a sandwich or make mac and cheese or whatever. Like I was doing all that stuff even you know for them to then. 

Or you know, and then as we got older, like I just always took more responsibility for stuff just around the house, chore, wise and stuff like that. That was just kind of like my default role. I think a lot of it was driven by like I always wanted to like help my dad out, because I knew he was like under a lot of pressure, to like do a lot, you know. Again, like you know he's, he'd take us to soccer practices and whatever, and he was the one that did the cooking and like try to help cleaning and stuff like that. So I just I always knew he was under pressure and he'd kind of complain about it a little bit. 

You know I'd hear that a lot and it again put more pressure on me to do more. By hearing that all the time even if it wasn't directed at me just because it was in the household I would definitely like attempt to step up the best I could all the time. So, just having those dynamics at home, like I just became a very independent, i could take care of myself very, very well And even to this day I think that affects like how often I make like friends or things like I don't have a need to like constantly have somebody around or somebody helping me or talking like this. Even I'm just very independent because I had to be. So, yeah, that definitely shapes you as a person, for sure. 

0:53:38 - Speaker 1
I guess I do kind of want to ask you more. Because I want to ask you more about, like, your relationship with your dad. Because, like, when I was young and I met you, like, and I got closer with your family and started spending more time around you and your family, like I feel like I not envied or was jealous, necessarily, but like your dad did a lot with you guys. He would take you to events and it was always there, like like my dad would come to a couple wrestling meets, he'd come to a football game here and there like. 

I also knew he was my dad was in his own world in a sense, like he never he wasn't overly involved with sports or athletics like that because he wasn't overly involved himself. But so, like from my point of view, like I, like I saw it, i was like again, i wasn't necessarily I don't remember being jealous, but just being like, oh that's, that's awesome. And I loved your dad when I was young and I would still love your dad, like you know we would all like I love how much he would just shoot the shit would be. I love how much he treated me Like a kid but still gave me like the respect of like being like a little bit more of an adult than like maybe my dad did at the time. I think like my dad still kind of kept me in this child like box. 

0:54:37 - Speaker 2
Yeah, we definitely had a different experience. 

0:54:39 - Speaker 1
Yeah, for sure, but your dad very much gave me like this you know you're a teenager like I respect you, you're strong, you got your own things going on, like right, and like How was your relationship with your dad? because? like, obviously he was very much there for you guys. But I know your dad struggled like with injuries and a lot of like chronic pain problems from work related injuries that like Right, bringing a lot of stress and tension in a life. That would, out of doubt, make somebody short, refuse and angry or kind of it's more stubborn at times and I've seen your dad be stubborn, i've seen him be a little bit angry and I know you've seen worse of that. Yeah, it's like how was your relationship with your dad like progressed through the years? 

0:55:18 - Speaker 2
because I know you guys like are kind of close. 

Oh yeah, i mean, like I would say I probably see my parents or speak with them or communicate with them, probably more than the average person of my age for sure Would I. I'm still much closer to them than than that but, like, specifically with my dad, it was always like a very odd relationship because I think especially me as a younger person well, looking back at it now, i realize like he was only my mom and dad were twenty three when they had me, so like they're pretty young, yeah. And now that I've gotten to that age I kind of realized like, yeah, twenty three year old, like they're still stupid, yeah. And so that's kind of going back to that forgiveness of just like having the realization of like they had no clue what they were doing and they admittedly made some mistakes, like you know, with me. So it was always like He was a person that He caused a lot of damage to me, but at the same time I He was there, he was the one taking me out to do activities, like he would do all those things with me and stuff, and I always had, like the knowledge of like if, if it really like, okay, he might do this or that to me. But if it like actually came down to like, just like he's, he's gonna, he's gonna self-sacrifice to to help you know whoever it is, that's just kind of who he is as a person, very much so like he will, he'll lay himself down before he allows somebody else to feel, you know, pain or whatever. And I think, like I've noticed, like as he's grown older too, is like how much he's changed through time too. Like Obviously some things stay the same, but, like you know, the things he maybe did to me as a child or even maybe in my, you know. 

Next, but, like You know, the Kellan nor youngest, like he really hasn't had to experience a lot of that, which is okay, great. Like he's grown to, like he's learned from those things as well. And you know, same thing with my mother, but It was always just like a weird thing for me because In some sense I was always like resentful, didn't want to always be around him. It was stressful for me But at the same time we were still very close. And then I think, as I got older, like Once I got to like high school about, i would say, is when things really started to just like were more like More partners than like you know this or that, and just more. It's just closer on like a human basis rather than like You're my elder, i do what you tell me to do, kind of thing. And Yeah, we're still very close, you know and how do you see Kellan's relationship with him? 

um, i Don't know, like he's. He's every bit there for Kellan, as he was for any of us, the older ones. I mean, he's constantly like like Kellan is very into soccer, does it super well, and dad's always you know the one taking him to, you know what they were in Ohio or something last weekend. You know like he's driving them all the way there to do this or that and like and that's just who he's gonna be And very much so. But I think how much he Disciplines him is drastically less than he was disciplinary for us. So that's definitely a change between, like me being the oldest and him being the youngest is like. I felt like kind of like with each kid at like Slowly ramp down a little bit. 

0:58:49 - Speaker 1
I mean, without a doubt, the same experience with Jason. My little buddy, without a doubt, has gotten the much better Ended a stick with my dad and bet in his older years, see that's a funny thing, though. 

0:59:01 - Speaker 2
Is it the better end of the stick? because now they haven't necessarily gone through those trials to know What it is to make it through those things, like You know. Cuz like, have they learned those same lessons? I you know remains to be seen. 

0:59:15 - Speaker 1
You know they're still getting to that age where things will start now I know, like I, you've obviously spent a lot of time with your brother in his younger years and you continue to spend time with him now You still do stuff, Yeah um, when my brother is younger years I didn't do as much with him but like now he's gone, he's kept getting older. 

I Start doing more and more with him and like I started trying to connect with him through like lifting and fitness and yeah, i'm like that's how, like we like have connected slowly over the years. I kind of we started building up or like I started working with him like mental health stuff and like talking about this stuff, making sure he like with journal learn to put his phone down more often, like limit it limit it, limit his social media, you know, even trying to limit or quit porn stuff like that. 

Yeah, just trying like make him realize how every like a lot of his actions feed into who he is as a person. Like Everything you feel is just like what your brain spitting out from everything you're putting into. Yeah, you know, i'm like just teach it into, like that awareness. Um, but it's funny because, like I still know, like I can still see in him Like he doesn't have the part, like all the similarities that I have between him, but like and I'm just trying to teach him this stuff younger to me He's still like missing that thing that I had because I went through a different Childhood than he did, with dad and yeah, like, so I right, yeah, there's like parts that are just a little different. 

1:00:30 - Speaker 2
It is so Backtracking. You asked me what I'd tell myself as a younger kid. That's kind of, i feel, like what we literally did just for our younger brothers. Because, like I'm thinking about like this stuff I've talked to you know Kelly about, or I've even heard Jason speak that way excited. I do talk to Jason every once in a while still. 

Yeah, um, and it's like they're talking about concepts and things that Nobody had ever told us at that age, when we were at that point like not even that was not a conversation, that was not an awareness, and part of that might just be like the day and age we're into is, i think, like mental health. Awareness is like far higher now that it was when we were younger and all that kind of stuff. But just, you know How to handle money, how to you know what, what does it mean to do Texas? You know it's. It's all that stuff that you probably should get taught in school, that you aren't, and so now we've gotten to more or less go backwards and tell our younger selves these things, which is Interesting, and it's like now we get to watch and see what they're gonna do with it, because how will this Jason? is he 18 yet? 

1:01:36 - Speaker 1
Ah no, he turns 18 this year. 

1:01:38 - Speaker 2
Yeah, because Kelly just turned 17. 

1:01:40 - Speaker 1
Yeah, so yeah, yeah, so they both turn 18. They'll be turning 18. Yeah, right. 

1:01:45 - Speaker 2
So, like we're getting to that crux point of like, well, they're gonna leave the house soon, we're gonna see, you know, do they sink or swim a little bit and like What did what did that information do with them? 

1:01:54 - Speaker 1
Like I have faith that they'll be just totally fine, but yeah, yeah, your mom just posted a picture of Kelly today for prom Crap. I like. Last time I seen him out, like every single time I see that kid, he just keeps changing and changing. Yeah why he's like really turned into a mini-man. It's a hilarious cuz. 

1:02:11 - Speaker 2
I mean so Relationship-wise, like I was very much a father to him, like when he was younger and now like I still like tell him what to do a little bit and stuff, but like We're just friends at this point, like we're just like honestly, i would consider telling like one of my best friends, it's one of the people I talked to the most, it's one of the people I'm around a lot, and so just you know, like it's become a very different thing over the years. For sure I don't remember where I was going with that. I had an idea. 

1:02:41 - Speaker 1
It's like almost like a little cathartic in a sense, so like it's like healing, to like be able to help Almost a younger virgin of yourself. Yeah, like maybe you wish you would have had help. 

1:02:50 - Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, just giving them all that information that I've gained myself over this time period, that I wish I would have been able To start sooner and now they get to use it and implement it. Yeah yeah that stuff, but yeah. 

1:03:04 - Speaker 1
Yeah, well, great. Well, i really appreciate you taking the time to come on today. This is awesome and I I really enjoy kind of getting to dig into some of this stuff a little bit deeper with you and talk. 

1:03:13 - Speaker 2
Yeah, the deeper. 

1:03:14 - Speaker 1
Yeah, I mean There's probably a million tangents that we can continue right. 

1:03:18 - Speaker 2
Yeah, we could pick any one of those things and just really dive into it. 

1:03:23 - Speaker 1
Yeah, and maybe maybe someday we'll have to do do another one. 

1:03:32 - Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah again. Thank you so much. 

1:03:34 - Speaker 1
I really appreciate it. Thank you guys for tuning in for another episode. If you like, please subscribe and like this podcast and Otherwise. Thank you so much and enjoy the rest of your day. Awesome dude, thank you so? much, thank you. I like this.