Transforming Struggles into Strengths in Fitness and Fatherhood w/ Kirk Remer

In this episode, I had the opportunity to sit down with personal trainer and owner of Winners Edge Gym , Kirk Remer, to explore his journey of personal growth and how his childhood experiences have shaped him. We dove into the importance of being open and honest in relationships, his passion for weightlifting, which began in his teenage years, and the mentors and coaches that guided him along the way. This discussion prompted reflection on Kirk's journey through college, the challenges he faced, and how he persevered to become the person he is today. In the final part of our conversation, we delve into Kirk's experiences with marriage and self-parenting, the importance of putting in the effort to ensure a successful relationship, and how his admiration for his wife has inspired him to continue learning and growing.

Transcript

0:00:14 - Speaker 1
Hey and welcome to another episode of On Turned Stones. On today's podcast, i'm going to be interviewing one of my favorite people in the world, kirk Reimer, nice, to meet you. This is a podcast I've been very excited to do because when I initially came up with this entire idea, you were literally one of the first people that popped in my mind Almost because our conversations is like what made this happen in my mind. It's what made me have the realization that I really like talking to people about this stuff and I really like digging into it, because me and you have had so many deep conversations. We talked about our paths, our history and how it's affected us now and like the things we do to get better so often. So that's why I'm very excited for this podcast. I've been very. I think people are going to see a lot of value. I'm excited to be on it. So just to kind of stop the podcast, would you do like a little introduction to yourself, where you're from, kind of what you do and stuff like that? Yeah, i'm 43. 

0:01:07 - Speaker 2
I was born in Burlington, wisconsin, raised in Waterford. I went to college at UW-Milwaukee for quite a long time about seven years worse. Then got a degree in kinesiology, went on after that, got a job and more of a type of like commercial see, like sports performance. I did that for like two years, went off on my own after that and then kind of just here I am training people and doing what I've always wanted to do. 

0:01:47 - Speaker 1
Winners as Jim, is the facility we're at right now, actually, where we're recording this and where you train people. So now you've how long have you been at Winners Edge, how long have you owned and operated Winners Edge? 

0:01:58 - Speaker 2
So when I left the main like commercial sports performance type I started in LLC to be an independent contractor with a buddy of mine and that was like I did that for like a year maybe. Then I started another LLC where I went off on my own and that was Winners Edge. So it was probably like Winners Edge has been 14 years, i think. So we've been in this building for 11, another one a year and a half. Yeah, i'd say like 13 years. Yeah, winners Edge has been 13 years. Okay, okay. 

0:02:37 - Speaker 1
So me and you, i feel like you really brought to light to me this idea that I get along with guys, that I had really similar childhoods and maybe I even similar childhoods, but like we both seek the same thing when we were kids that maybe we didn't get, and like as adults we like saw how we had these comparable things about ourselves, about how we kind of analyze people around us, how we pay attention to people around us. So can you like talk a little bit about you know your childhood, how you know your relationship with your parents? Yeah, kind of like, if you dig into that a little bit, we can kind of go from there, sure. 

It could be a long, complicated one, but So I guess here let's start with this Your parents worked together when you were young, Yeah, yeah, so my parents were married, i think, for 20 years, and of that 20 years they probably together for two to five. 

0:03:33 - Speaker 2
You know is always on off, on off. My dad works second shift at General Motors, so I really didn't see him. So my mom was pretty much I have an older brother and then raised you know us too and stuff like that, And then they got a divorce, then he left And then it was mostly just me and my mom, because I, like I said, I have an older brother and he was gone doing his own thing And then, yeah, I guess it goes from there. 

0:04:01 - Speaker 1
What age was that? when it was just kind of you and your mom and your brother had left? 

0:04:06 - Speaker 2
I think it was like 14. Okay, right around that time, like freshman year, right around there. 

0:04:12 - Speaker 1
Okay. So when you look back on your childhood, do you kind of like what age do you? do your memories kind of really like come back from You know? like, if you think of your childhood, do you think of yourself as like a seven year old kid. Do you think of yourself as a 12 year old kid? Where's your brain go when you think of that? 

0:04:26 - Speaker 2
We talked about that before. I don't have much memory at all of being a kid. I have like more snippets of like pictures in my head of something. Somebody will like bring something up maybe And I'll be like, huh, maybe I did that too. I don't have much memories of much back then, but mostly like somebody brings it up or try to relate like a birthday party or something like that, but honestly it's not very detailed. I don't remember my teacher's names. I don't remember. Honestly, it's hard to even. I barely remember aunts and uncles names and cousins and stuff like that. I just for some reason, just blocked it out, or maybe I was terrible at paying attention, i don't know. 

0:05:13 - Speaker 1
Well, you know from what we talked about, there was things that were hard, that you had to go through when you were a kid. It's like, in a way, you feel like you kind of just put aside these memories of, like some of the hard times when you were young. 

0:05:27 - Speaker 2
Yeah, for sure. 

0:05:28 - Speaker 1
You had some issues with like bullying with brothers your brother and his friends, right. 

0:05:31 - Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, i mean, you know, in the moment of it you don't really think about it until like years later I realized, god, i'm so classed, i'm so full back. I hate water. I remember maybe it was you who even asked me, but I was like why you like that or something happened to you And I'm like, yeah, my brother used to shove me sleeping bags, zip it up and hit it with a metal vacuum tubes And I hated that, obviously. Or throw me in a really tight closet and pretend he was like Freddie Krueger scratching at the door. We had a pool at one time and him and his buddies would like dunk me under and hold me under then watch me cry when I got up out of it. And I think that's probably why I fucking hate tight places. I hate it Water. I don't. I could swim for about maybe a minute And then that's about it, because I just never wanted to learn going to water or anything like that. You know. 

0:06:35 - Speaker 1
Because it kind of sounds like it made you guarded, One of the biggest things I'd say about you through the years. I've known you now. I've known you since 2014. And it's I've seen you. I've seen you learn to be less guarded. I've seen you open up with your emotions more. 

But prior to that, the Kirk I knew back in 2014 is, to me, honestly, completely different than the Kirk I know now, because we've had so many deep conversations and I feel like I've seen your process and your ability to kind of not emotionally open up in a way that like you're all of a sudden spilling your emotions, but the way that you've accepted things in your life and have learned to deal with them, where maybe before you're kind of just like surviving, just really like pushing through and like not really thinking about stuff, I see how much more you kind of like you process things in a different way. Yeah for sure. So it sounds like those experiences when you're a kid. Really you didn't look like you didn't realize how traumatic they were to you as a kid, because it's just like it's just brothers. 

0:07:30 - Speaker 2
Just the way it was. Yeah, yeah. 

0:07:32 - Speaker 1
It was almost like that attitude in America, right like back in the 70s and 80s, were like you know, yeah, being bullied by your brother and his friends just gave you some tough skin. 

Yeah, and it's cool, Like I'm not having that. It's hard because I do believe that tough skin helps you And it helps you deal with things And the fact the world isn't really fair, the world's kind of rough. If you don't have a little bit of a tough skin, you're going to have a hard time in this world and you're going to likely not be able to figure out how to thrive. So the tough skin is needed. 

0:08:02 - Speaker 2
But it could be a different way. Yeah, it could be a different way. 

0:08:05 - Speaker 1
And it's unfortunate that it has to happen. But like it makes you also who you are. It makes you be this person who is very understanding of people, very accepting of people. It makes you very able to accept people. So can you like talk a little bit like a summit of change? you feel like maybe you've gone through over the last 10 years as you. 

0:08:21 - Speaker 2
Yeah, i mean, i also feel I was fairly immature also, you know, into a later stage of life, you know just more accepting of going through the growing process and accepting other people's faults and not like being negative towards that, being a lot more like I don't know, more open to everything and not fearing being judged about what I'm going to say or do, because if you don't share it, then you don't get to hear the other person's point of view because maybe they're guarded or whatever. 

If I'm just real short and surface, sometimes you, your relationships, are short and surface and that you know, a part of me, i think, growing up and just being more mature and realizing that this is me and take it or leave it, you know. And then also to like, like, just trying to be better and not such a dick or better, and like relationships because I think you're, if you're better to somebody else, they're gonna be better to you and I found that out. So it's just more accepting of myself and my faults and not trying not to hide them, because we're all pretty fucked up. Everybody's pretty fucked up. You know. There's nobody, that's not, that's for sure. And then realizing that and being okay to share that, you know, not with like strangers or anything, but like you know, people that you start growing close to. 

0:09:58 - Speaker 1
It's not fair to them to just be surface all the time you know, and you've been in this interesting position for so much your career, because you know some personal trainers say this often, which is like clients end up kind of treating you like a therapist every time they're here to get trained by you. They also want to dump things on you. Yeah, you've gotten to see people like have all these emotions and how they deal with them And I'm sure like that experience has kind of built into also like your understanding of people and maybe your understanding of yourself, because you've seen people come in and progress, whether it's positively or negatively, over the years. Yeah, and seeing the way that other people have dealt with their issues, how is that kind of playing like you deal with yourself? because, like yeah you. 

I'm sure, without a doubt you still get this every day. You still get people who you know come and talk to you about things. They talk about interpersonal things all the time and you get to kind of hear and analyze this stuff. 

0:10:50 - Speaker 2
Yeah, i used to train this guy. I do remember this. This guy used to train. His name is Randy. He was a brilliant guy. He was super nice finance guy, but like just a good dude, and he would always give me advice and I would be like, man, whatever, i don't care, let's just do this. You know, whatever I wouldn't be that like that. I'd be like, oh okay, sounds good, let's you know, like I don't give a shit. 

And then I think he picked up on that. He was really good at like reading people and he told me one day smart people learn from their own mistakes. Really smart people learn from others mistakes For some reason at Hong An and then I mean everybody that I come in contact with, like I always learn something from them every day. I'm always learning from other people. Sometimes it may not look like I am, but I'm usually processing what you see and I'm always like I'm fairly decent at multitasking, so I can be doing this and listening to somebody else or doing whatever, and I really appreciate what I get from others because I really try to take in everything and just learn. And then I try to process that to maybe myself, in a way I can get better or realize that's something I do that I didn't realize before. It's kind of a fault, you know, and maybe try to fix that. You know, and I think it's really easy. 

In our field I feel like a lot of trainers are fairly negative, which is funny because you should be positive, but for some reason I think there's a point of burnout. You know, being in the service industry and stuff like that, yeah, but I always hated that and others. So I always try like I realized I listened to it I'm like I'm not gonna do that, like I'm gonna be appreciative of what I have the people around me learn from them. Maybe I can give them something. I don't know. You know, and it just kind of was a evolution through everything And yeah, i guess that's kind of how I feel about it. 

0:12:59 - Speaker 1
Yeah, it's almost like this idea of fake it till you make it, but eventually you can fake it long enough, of like I'm gonna try to be very positive even when I don't feel it. Yeah, But eventually that positivity rolls into yourself and you're like well, no, I actually am positive. Yeah, I'm not just trying, I'm not just acting positive anymore. 

0:13:13 - Speaker 2
Yeah, And I feel like I don't know who said it or whatever, or even if it's true, and I believe it to be true, As it takes so much energy to be negative, Yeah, Like it's so much easier to see a positive side of things and, believe me, I don't do it all the time Like I touch myself, you know whatever, but hopefully somebody's around to call me on that so I can snap out of it, because that's, you know, I don't want to just people let me slide on stuff that isn't acceptable. 

0:13:44 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, okay. So kind of to go back to Chos for a little bit, what would you say? how much do you remember about your relationship with your mom and your young I'm like how that's progressed for you into like your adult life, but I guess, mainly starting with like your young like, how much do you remember like that relationship? 

0:14:02 - Speaker 2
I mean it's more like it's hard to say, i guess it's. I remember just being a lot of anxiety in the house. Obviously it wasn't that great of a marriage, but I mean I think they did their best in what they, you know, try to give us and whatever. 

So it was always very anxious in the house. I was anxious because the tension was high And I always remember just trying to read the situation And even as a kid I was trying to read the room because I didn't want to be the person that they took out their frustration on. And you know, the least conflict in my mind was a better day, and I always try to read that. But I mean, my mom definitely struggled, you know, with the whole situation, you know, raising two kids and you know she still worked and, you know, tried to get us to our homework, get us to sports or get us somewhere. 

And looking back on it, that's like a hard thing to do, you know, especially like back then, when you know we lived out in the country So it wasn't like, you know, we could walk down, you know, then we could be somewhere. It's not like we lived in town. Everything was a drive Exactly everything's a drive And everything was just a hassle. Yeah, i mean, i think she did the best that she could do. She was just more. She's just very unhappy, or I don't know if she knew how to be happy. Maybe that was her happy, i don't know. It's hard to ask her now. 

0:15:50 - Speaker 1
So, yeah, like it's hard to expect, like you can't expect somebody to be able to like pass on happiness to their kids when they've maybe not figured it out themselves, But also, you know, she probably didn't figure it out herself because she didn't have her parents pass it on to her either, And you know how much that is kind of like a cycle And like I know that's something like you're aware of with your kids now that, like you don't, you want to like give them positivity and happiness because you want them to like learn how to be more functional adults. 

You want them to maybe like not deal with some of the bumps that you've dealt with, like, would you say, like your relationship with your mom, like you've seen that come out in like relationships in the past, like how you kind of interacted with women, interacted with I was fairly aware of like when I was a kid to I didn't want to be that way, so I felt like I was more like relationships with girls. 

0:16:50 - Speaker 2
I think it was more like immaturity, you know, that kind of stuff not realizing that we're completely different human beings And we have to, like you know, bend each way you know for each other, and I was more of like no, this is what I do And that's it. More towards the thing. But yeah, i don't know, i guess it's a hard one. See, i do remember, though, like, as I got older, moved out, you know, probably more in my 30s or something like that right around there And I realized like, if I was gonna be with my mom and she's gonna be negative, i'd always try to get her like my. It was like a goal, it was like a game, i'm gonna try to get her to say something positive, and I would do that all the time, and it was kind of like I don't know, i guess it was like a game, but she didn't really get it Or I just wasn't good at it. It was a yeah, she's just not happy. 

0:17:48 - Speaker 1
And then, like, would your relationship with your dad and I don't actually I'm trying to think, i don't know if I'd know it necessarily, tom here how was, like, how was your relationship with your dad when you're younger and like going into older Cause, like when your dad, when you were 14, then your dad, wasn't in the house cause your parents were separated, your brother was gone. At that point, like prior to 14, was your dad like, was he very much a figure in your life of, like every day, like you interacted with your dad, or just No, no, yeah, he wasn't around much. 

0:18:18 - Speaker 2
I don't remember much about him, Kind of remember what he looks like. But yeah, he was, like I said, he works like in shift So he was gone. when I got home He was sleeping. When I got up Then on the weekends he was always gone, like you know, and like you know, for a while there he lived in an apartment and he wasn't. You know, they were still married but he lived away from us for a while. Then you know they'd try to do, you know, come back. Then he'd come back and you know I remember, like more Christmas stuff. I remember him cause we'd go to his side for Christmas Eve. 

But yeah, I don't really remember too much about him. 

0:18:59 - Speaker 1
No, Do you remember wanting his attention, Like you know? like every little boy wants his dad. Yeah, yeah, tell him, i'm proud of you, i love you, you know, do you remember wanting that and seeking that? 

0:19:10 - Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean I'm sure I did. 

I mean we joke around about it here, you know, as in we're, you know abs and fathers, but Yeah, i'm sure I did, but Yeah, more so it's kind of hard to explain if you haven't been at it, but he just wasn't there So I didn't really have what other people he had and most of my friends, i think, had the same thing. It was all kind of a weird situation where we were all just kind of the same in the same home situation By one buddy. He had a great set of parents and that kind of stuff and whatever his dad said I listened to. 

0:19:57 - Speaker 1
But everybody else, we just joke about it usually. 

0:20:01 - Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah kind of deflect. 

0:20:04 - Speaker 1
So do you remember having a male figure that you kind of looked up to or saw somebody like, oh, I want to be like that when you're young, Whether I guess it was right around you, or even just maybe a hero or an athlete or stuff like that. 

0:20:18 - Speaker 2
Mostly coaches teachers that kind of stuff. They filled in the gaps every year with something like a football coach, a baseball coach, a really good teacher, somebody. I felt like those filled enough gaps too. Do you feel like? 

0:20:36 - Speaker 1
that idea. So what coach is kind of being what you looked at as a, something like that you looked up to. Is that what maybe also made you want to be a coach someday at all? 

0:20:45 - Speaker 2
Yeah, maybe I never thought about it that way. I mean, i remember when I was 13, i found about like I lifted weights for the first time and I said to myself, like this is going to be what I'm going to do for the rest of my life. 

And yeah, 13 was a big. I found out what I wanted to do for the rest of my life and I never changed it at 13, and that's kind of one of those things. And then, yeah, i mean those guys, those teachers and coaches that I looked up to, all had qualities that I liked and what I wanted to be like when I was older. So maybe, yeah, kind of like you know, that fit the mold pretty good. That's a good point. 

0:21:22 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, because I got. yeah, i want to get into that because I know for you, when you found weightlifting like that was, was that like the first time in your life you kind of almost maybe felt like you had a sense of power in the world, yeah, something that like you can really work at. That like was just you against you. Yeah. 

0:21:38 - Speaker 2
I get it. I mean, i really never thought that deep about it, i just knew like. I knew like a switch flipped And I'm like this is it, this is what I'm put on earth here to do. And I remember at 13, i would I had. My older brother had like those little sand weight, you know, like they're a plastic filled with sand Yeah, and that's what I'd work out with. 

And then I'd always try to get my buddies to do it down in my basement. And then, you know, they they'd do it for a little while. I'm like, oh, training them, me training, it was just like a lot of fun. And then that actually turned into like I kept doing that And then, like a couple of my buddies, parents would come and I would train them in the basement in our house, like yeah, let's do it. You know, and they just everybody knew like this is what Kirk does And you know, if he doesn't get his lifts in on Friday, he's not coming out the party till he's done. You know that kind of stuff. And it was just kind of like it's what I did and everybody knew it and everybody was pretty accepting of it. You know, did it? 

0:22:45 - Speaker 1
first click for you because, like what's you know the first day of, like, lifting a weight and feeling good, or what's it? like you had lifted a couple of times, like you saw that, like saw that little little bit of progress, like what, what do you think like really hooked you. 

0:22:56 - Speaker 2
Yeah, Well, I remember. I mean, 13 is a great time to start with hormones and everything Like every day, you just get better. 

0:23:03 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:23:04 - Speaker 2
And I remember, like like one day, you know, you flex in the mirror and you're like man. 

I like legit, like the next day of flex and there was like a vein in a muscle and I'm like, oh my God, i can do whatever I want And this is before internet or anything like that. So then I started buying like flex, flex magazine, muscle and fitness, muscle media 2000, rx muscle And I was like enthralled and I never seen a gym before, right, i was just like, oh my God, you know, if I get enough creatine I can look like this. 

You know those ads you know I bought so much Like cause I. So we were out in the country and we're surrounded by farmers, so I just walked next door for the farmers work for like five bucks or whatever. You know blowing the mow wagons, doing whatever, clean stall, just anything. Basically give me cash and then I had enough cash to go buy a magazine and then that's all I did. You know, it was awesome, open up my world. 

0:24:06 - Speaker 1
You know, it's the only thing I actually read where magazines and not school work but people really underestimate like the dedication people have to have back in that day. We're like we didn't have that. 

0:24:17 - Speaker 2
You don't have. 

0:24:17 - Speaker 1
T nation and bodybuildingcom. 

0:24:18 - Speaker 2
Right Yeah. 

0:24:20 - Speaker 1
We had a million articles from million people who have done this so you could see, like, what kind of path you could take. No, you have to seek it out, like truly seek it out, and then you have to wait for magazines to show up in the mail. 

0:24:30 - Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

0:24:31 - Speaker 1
Put it up and read it and see what Lee Haney was doing at the time, or something. 

0:24:36 - Speaker 2
Crazy, yeah, it was, and I just knew no different. And then that's just what I did and just learned. And then I, and then in high school I lifted at the high school gym And once I got my license I found that there was a gym in a couple of towns over and I started there And then all the guys that were there, they kind of really took me in and like, showed me stuff and like, like really, i guess, guided me towards the right. Like, looking back now, like these guys were smart, they knew what to do, they didn't take any drugs, they're all natural And you know it's always the basics And they just said stick to this. 

This is going to take a long time, you know, whatever, and I loved it And I actually, looking back, those guys were, you know they weren't like the nicest guys but because they're working out. So you learn to be like it's a serious, like I don't want to sit here and talk and catch up with the weekend. You know, i learned that like this is business, this is serious, This is time for you to do what you're passionate about And I really enjoyed that a lot When I separate the people who train just because they train and people who train because it's a passion. 

Yeah, right. 

0:25:51 - Speaker 1
Like you develop the real passion for it, and when you're passionate about lifting, you don't go to the gym and want to just shoot the shit. Yeah, you go to the gym with your head down and you're trying to get shit done because you're working at something. 

0:26:01 - Speaker 2
Yeah, And it's a great feeling. I know a lot of people probably won't ever have that feeling, but it is amazing to be so focused on one thing you know. 

0:26:13 - Speaker 1
When I think back in high school, like I started like lifting in middle school and I just kind of did a lot by myself, but like one of the biggest turning points for me was getting under the wing of a guy named Daryl Edelback, oh, who owns New Heights Supplements. Yeah Yeah, he took me under his wing and, like took me to Bailey's fitness whatever. 

And, like, showed me what real lifting was like. Yeah, but it's amazing, like it wasn't until somebody very serious about the world of lifting and training took me under his wing and showed me what real training was like, what it really meant to oh, this is Burns. Well, you're not done. You got to push a lot. 

Go, go, go, Yeah Not just oh, do three sets of 10. Like that really molded a lot of my training philosophy and the way I like how much bigger and stronger I got after I started working with him. That like so when you say this experience, you got to work with these guys and like they showed you the way I think a lot of guys or kids miss. That Like if you don't ever get that, you kind of just follow some football program You kind of follow what everybody else in high school is doing. 

You don't develop that little edge that you might get when somebody who's very serious about training takes you under the wing and shows you what serious training is like. That's the best. 

0:27:18 - Speaker 2
It is. 

0:27:19 - Speaker 1
It is So for you that like really that became your identity. It became the thing that like Still is my identity. 

0:27:26 - Speaker 2
Yeah. 

0:27:27 - Speaker 1
Yeah, and it became like your outlet for life. Yeah, right, and it sounds like, obviously, since that, like you've always been on this like physical self improvement journey, you're always trying to improve physically. Um, do you like to remember at any point in there in those years like thinking of like mental health and thinking of like improving mental health, or? 

0:27:47 - Speaker 2
I used to read like Tom Platt's stuff He was a bodybuilder eighties and stuff like that late seventies And he was big on mental like fordude and pushing through pain zones and doing stuff like that And I he was somebody that, like he, i'd read his stuff and try it Like when you think you're done, you're not done, when you know whatever. But through that I think you build some mental toughness too. That relates into other things Like don't quit right away or don't you know, just kind of push, push, push. Mental health stuff, though I never got into it until it was more of like a buzzword that you find out more people are dealing with other things and stuff like that. You know I was never like, uh, i was never. 

I always felt I was fairly even keel all the time, um, not too hyper, not too down, like I don't think I've ever been depressed, ever. I mean, i've felt sadness, you know stuff like that And uh, you know I don't think I struggled in those ways, but I always wanted to be better. I was never really smart, i'm short, i'm not the most athletic guy, so I always just wanted to find an edge, to get something better, to be better to, you know, just to be a little bit above average is kind of what I'm always looking for, you know, and now that I'm getting older it's more than two, you know. 

0:29:16 - Speaker 1
So you, you identified, though, when you're a kid you were anxious Like. Is that more of like an looking back, as an adult, you realize you were an anxious kid. 

0:29:23 - Speaker 2
Yeah. 

0:29:25 - Speaker 1
Like in the household and maybe your parents were fighting and like you were feeling some feeling. You didn't identify that feeling as anxiety back then. 

0:29:32 - Speaker 2
Yeah, i mean there wasn't much fighting between them, there was just no talking anxiety type of thing, Okay, and yeah, looking back, i mean, i just looking back, i just thought that's the way it was. I had no clue, like this is just life and that's that's what it is, you know. But yeah, looking back, yeah, anxiety for sure. On trying not to rock the boat and try to make you know you, always I think I learned more to be a chameleon to other people's emotions So I could try to, like, calm the waters. You know that kind of stuff. Yeah, push your own feelings aside. You know if you feel like shit that day, but the whole house is in tension, like, okay, you got to do something to make something happy. You're reading the. You know that kind of stuff. And that's anxiety for sure. 

0:30:21 - Speaker 1
That's definitely a characteristic I see in you that I recognize, which is the ability to kind of like put your feelings aside but still operate as you need to Yeah, which I do think a lot of people will struggle with, especially if they're going through something very hard. Yeah, so, even like when you say like you don't really like feel like you've been through depression, but I'm sure you've been through depression but your mentality about how you treated depression is probably yeah, I could totally be Yeah. 

Like you learn how to just push through it, or you learn how to you had like a purpose enough to like you focus on it, yeah Right, that kind of keep pushing through it And it just comes out in different ways. Like that, so in your twenties, and like going into college, like how was that shift for you from going like small town, small town high school to UWM, being in the city? You are a country guy And now you're obviously like you're in the city. I'm assuming you're living in the city too. 

0:31:18 - Speaker 2
Yeah, I lived off of like Oakland or something like that. Oakland and something else. Yeah, the apartment. 

0:31:25 - Speaker 1
So how was that transition for you, coming to the city, living in Oakland, the busiest you know, on the streets there. 

0:31:30 - Speaker 2
Yeah, it was crazy My first day at UWM. So I went to UW Whitewater first and then left because they I didn't well, it's the only one I got into but they didn't have like a kinesiology program but UWM did, so I went and that was fine, it was whatever it was. It was like your first year living in a dorms really didn't enjoy it much. It was just a lot of like Yeah, i just don't know Like it was, just like this is weird, like we have to live with each other, you know whatever. But then when I went to UWM, yeah, my first day at school, man, i was walking through the union and I saw a guy with makeup, a beard and a dress on And I was like what is this place? And it was just, that was like it was just wild. I mean I just thought everybody was fucking weird man. But yeah, it was a big transition. 

I didn't really enjoy the city. I'm not a big crowds guy And I feel like everything's crowded And if you wanna go to the bars or a house party or something, i was like man, this is like tight spaces, don't really give me. I'm like this is crazy. Yeah, in school, like I said, i'm not the smartest guy. School was hard. It took a lot of work and a lot of effort to really get through. I never sat in a classroom that had 180 people in it Like I didn't have to be there, they didn't give a shit right, there's so many people And I was like, oh all different. 

You know, it was all learning experience And, too, like I'm just, i was just immature, really didn't understand, like what this was about And you know, i got kicked out of school for grades and I had to sit in this board meeting or a board of like I don't know, whatever they are for the kinesiology department, and they would sit there and ask questions like why did you do this, why didn't you do this, this, this, this? I just remember them like didn't they get mattered, you know they're like, well, it does matter, you know. Then they give you the speech about the real world and stuff like that And things that somebody probably should have told me when I was younger, growing up, you know, and I found out the hard way And they luckily left, they let me back in And then from there on I was much better And yeah, That's, i always think, like people. 

0:34:09 - Speaker 1
It's amazing people are actually like, not good at parenting themselves. So a lot of people, when they like, leave out of their parents' nest or when they get into college and like later on, you know how many 30, 40, 50-year-olds out there still don't know how to parent themselves, still don't know how to conclude themselves because they don't know how to say hey, i know this is fun, but let's step it back, let's not do this 100%. So would you say like, would your parents and like their relationship was hard. They had. Your mom had a hard time, your dad wasn't around a ton, so you never like, you feel like you didn't get parented enough in a way where, like, you have to like you have to go through a curve there of learning how to parent yourself. 

0:34:45 - Speaker 2
Yeah they, I never had a curfew, Never had to tell anybody where he was. Yeah, no real life lessons. I remember, you know, talking to my wife and telling her about that kind of stuff And she's like, oh, that's not normal. 

And I'm like, well, this is what it is, you know, But yeah. So I learned the hard way all the time, All the time, like from being kicked out of school to getting punched in the face a couple of times to getting like. You learn not to say certain things and you learn to do certain things And you're not as important as you think you are at times, And especially in the real world, that just don't give a fuck. You gotta grow the fuck up quick, you know. 

0:35:32 - Speaker 1
Yeah, i think one of the things that I think like I really relate it to you on, i get along with you on is I never felt smart when I was young, but I always felt like I could put in more effort than everybody else Oh yeah, for sure, And I mean you're connect on that because, no matter what, I will outpef you. 

I didn't think I was gonna outsmart anybody, but I know I was new, I could out-effort people And I know you like to say you're dumb. I know you like to say you're not a very smart guy. I actually I put you at a different level there when I think of how smart you are, because I think you are a very smart guy. 

I just don't think you're a guy that was gonna get shoved into a school type system and, hey, sit at a desk for eight hours a day listen to somebody talk at you, take some notes, come back and memorize everything, and they told you so you could write it down on the test, Let alone in college. You also still had it like that. You have to learn how to parent yourself. We're in college, you have to. Yeah, nobody's gonna tell you to show up to the lecture once a holiday to people. 

Yeah, that was crazy Yeah you could skip it every fucking day and try to do your best to just show up. But effort at the end of the day for you was kind of the thing you almost fell back on, probably why you also loved lifting, because lifting to a limit is effort. It is just. Can you put in the effort consistently over a long enough period of time for the results to show up, get an endocidal results and let that drive more effort? For sure, but I doubt. 

I think the way your brain works is beyond a lot of people, in the sense of your brain works very fast and it processes a lot And I've seen you getting better and better at it, even just the last 10 years of like how you learn to work with your brain now Thanks. So when I'm right here you say you're not the smartest guy, i'm like you're using the wrong stick to measure. You're a very smart guy. You just were never gonna get shoved into the world that the modern day world of how they want kids to learn and move forward, so okay. 

So now, when you were young, would you like you drank in high school? Yep, Would you say. You drank a lot. Yep, okay, was that. Did you drink as an outlet or did you drink just because it was the thing that happened, as the thing that people did? 

0:37:38 - Speaker 2
We were just brought around it. So, like I mean, 10 years old, if you wanted to be at Christmas and have some drinks, go ahead. You wanna eat? like what are those? They're like rum, soaked chocolate, cherries, you know, eat those. It didn't matter, like drinking wasn't a thing, like it, just you wanted to drink, go drink. You know. It was just never looked down upon, it was never like, and it's what we all did, and not all, but, like my group of friends, the family, it's just what I knew is drink. So my first year of college, actually, i remember my roommate never drank. They're like we drank and drank and drank and I was fine. I mean I was drunk, but like I knew how to handle myself And he was like naked, running around, i had to grab him and get him back to the dorm. I'm like, dude, this is like, have you never drank? He was like, no, what the fuck? you don't do that, you know. But yeah, yeah, we drink yep. 

0:38:44 - Speaker 1
Do you look back on that like, especially like high school, like younger drinking like, not like do you not regret it, but like you're like, oh yeah, like should not have been doing that Like, do you see it having a negative impact that, like you, you know, going back, maybe wish you could have told yourself not to. 

0:39:00 - Speaker 2
Yeah, I don't know. I guess I never really thought about going back and not doing it. It felt like, Since I got away with so many situations, I didn't parent myself enough or whatever. I felt it was okay. But I'm sure if I would've got into an accident or anything like that, I would've been like fuck, what am I doing? But I was lucky enough to get out of it, but yeah. 

0:39:26 - Speaker 1
Because I know one of the first real moments I kind of saw growth out of you was, i think we'd lift every Saturday and I was so used to you crack a cold one as soon as we were done lifting, or maybe while we're lifting, was when you started being like I don't need to have a drink today, and that was like I started seeing the little changes in you And I feel like over the last few years I've just seen you drink less. I've seen you look to escape like that less And I use the word escape but maybe it's not the right word Did you ever look at drinking as an escape? 

0:39:58 - Speaker 2
Definitely looked at it as something that I did to relax or celebrate or one of those things. And then, yeah, you're right, i just one day I was just like meh, i didn't want to do this anymore, and I don't know why, or maybe I don't- know, I have no clue. And then I just was like I feel done with it. I mean, i still drink, don't get me wrong. 

0:40:23 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. 

0:40:24 - Speaker 2
But I used to drink. I mean, i was every day And it was like nothing. It was like nothing to kill a four local by noon or anything like that, you know, and it was yeah. 

0:40:36 - Speaker 1
Well, for so many years it was so normal for people to be like I'm gonna pick up a pack of beer for Kirk. Just like it was like so normal to gift you a 30 pack of middle or light. 

0:40:46 - Speaker 2
It was, and I enjoyed it. 

0:40:48 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah exactly And it was great And yeah, so, seeing that shift in you, yeah, I really liked that Because for me, I definitely recognized drinking. I drank a lot in college and I tried to cut it out at some point in college And in my adult life, continue to cut it out more and more and not do it as much. And when I started recognizing that you were doing that too, I was like, okay, he's going through his own little growth there as well. 

0:41:13 - Speaker 2
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, parenting myself at much later age, you know. 

0:41:19 - Speaker 1
But at the same time you're still learning to parent yourself. So many people out there are still genuinely not. They're genuinely just living day to day and doing whatever the brain just tells them. You know this idea that you'll put in an active effort to think about what you're doing, how it's affecting you and affecting the people around you. Now I'd say probably the biggest thing for you in growth that I've seen well, it's getting married. I'm assuming you agree with that. 

0:41:47 - Speaker 2
Oh yeah, i mean yeah, yeah, it was the best thing ever did. 

0:41:51 - Speaker 1
Yeah, being married is by far. Probably. It's probably the best thing that's happened in my life for me to learn how to, for me to grow and mature further. Oh God, yeah, cause you? I've talked about this before, i don't I do. I believe it's really hard to mature as a person, as a person, till you have to live with somebody else every day and realize like every single day, you're not the main focus, like you cannot be the main focus of the day. 

Yeah, that's for sure. Like day after day, not just like, oh, this is going to last three months and then it's over. Like when you're married to somebody, you're committed to that lifetime with them. You are accepting that for the rest of your life. I have to be, i have to learn how to control myself, not just for me but for the others around me. 

0:42:31 - Speaker 2
Oh my God, yes, yeah. 

0:42:33 - Speaker 1
And so can you kind of like talk a little bit about like getting married and like some of the changes you felt. You know any changes you felt like came from that? Yeah, oh my God so many changes. 

0:42:42 - Speaker 2
I mean, getting married was like a whole different life, like the life before was now done and now it's a new life, would you know, being a parent, also parenting myself, trying to make sure your spouse is happy And then also that they're happy with you and you're not doing anything too stupid And like, yeah, there's so many things that go into it that I love and I just it's such a that's a great thing. That's so hard too, and it's amazing. Every time we figure something out, you know, and you grow stronger, you love them more every day. You know it's really good. 

0:43:27 - Speaker 1
How would you compare the effort that you have to put in in a marriage compared to the effort that you put in to lifting? You know, like lifting is just, like, it's almost like such a straight and narrow, like. 

0:43:39 - Speaker 2
Yeah. 

0:43:39 - Speaker 1
The effort where, like with marriage, the effort's like it's complex. it's a complex effort. Yeah, It is still effort, but it's more complex. How would you break that down? 

0:43:51 - Speaker 2
Yeah, i mean this is gonna sound like a psycho narcissistic thing, but lifting has given me so many problems in my life and in many different ways, and as I get older I'm still trying to figure it out and get better and better and getting older and getting better. 

0:44:12 - Speaker 1
That's like a. 

0:44:13 - Speaker 2
That's a really hard thing And I work at it all the time. Marriage is the same. I'm just trying to work at it all the time, make sure I try to put as much effort into their feelings as I have the energy for that day, and I do the same with lifting As much effort as I can, energy and try to read myself of what's better or what's. You know. Sometimes it's like you got to do squats today. It's Friday. You got to do squat, but you just feel like shit. But do I feel like shit, or is it just me being lazy and just letting everything around me pull that away? And then you got to fight back and forth and do what's best for you And the same thing at home. 

It's like do I want to be a turd sitting on a couch watching TV? And where do I want to put some effort in and get up and be like do you want to do something today? Or do you want to go for a walk? Or you look really pretty today. You know that kind of stuff And just one of those things. Where do you want me to take the kids somewhere? Do you want me to do? you know, it's just like all examples of. You know the effort that goes into each of them. 

0:45:21 - Speaker 1
We're like, maybe like when you're single, it's yeah, it's so easy to like lift, go home, sit on the couch. Yeah, you have to do whatever you want. I know me and you very much relate on the like. When I was single, i'd go to work every day. I'd come to the gym lift for two hours go home, four hours in Netflix. 

0:45:36 - Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly That's how I wake up. do it again. 

0:45:39 - Speaker 1
And I loved it because it was so easy. It's so easy, so easy to go home and watch four hours in Netflix. And I know you, you're somebody like me because I grew up. TV was like my escape growing up. Oh yeah, you know movies. 

I would run to the library to get a movie every day And like that was my little, like that's how I lived in my own fantasy land and my own little fantasy world. That's how I got through. any rough parts of my childhood was I just watched a lot of TV. I'm guessing you kind of had similarities, especially living in a country. Yeah, yeah So like I know, like we've talked about that plenty Like you used to love just going home watching a random documentary, watching something. 

0:46:12 - Speaker 2
Playing video games, doing whatever yeah. 

0:46:14 - Speaker 1
Yeah. so being married, now you find, yeah, you have to put in that effort to like not just take the easy road all the time. Oh it's on. yeah, do you ever like find it like, do you separate the difference though? Or like when is being lazy and when do you do just need a break, when do you actually like need a little bit of a long time? It's like, how do you separate that? 

0:46:33 - Speaker 2
Usually when I actually, in a little burge out, need a break that'll last for like a couple of days, like I just am like oh, and lazy is usually just a one. You know, it's just like. I know I'm just lazy. But yeah, sometimes I just get a little burnt out. It's not from anything bad, it's just sometimes, like their long days, maybe there's a lot going on, maybe there's a lot going on, you know, money-wise, or there's a lot going on at home with the girls or the dog or you know all like these things add up And then I just try to keep like everything's good, everything's good, and that kind of burns out after a little bit. Usually, like it was like three or four days of like, oh man, i'm burnt out, i just need a break. You know, sit down, recharge, it usually works. But yeah, lazy is kind of like meh, i don't want it to do that, you know. 

But, it'll go away like instantly once I kind of I think I go through my head like the risk to benefit ratio of what I'm doing, what I'm feeling Like, okay, yeah, i need to do this. 

0:47:38 - Speaker 1
Yeah, one of the things I admire about you is that you do show up. You show up here to the gym I mean seven days a week and you show up and you're dealing with people where we're very similar in a sense. We're both very empathetic. We see somebody struggling and it's hard for us not to feel that feeling a little bit ourselves. Oh for sure. Yeah, where I don't think a lot of people can relate to that, like seeing somebody hurting and being like, yeah, like they're hurting, I'm not hurting, they're fine. 

0:48:04 - Speaker 2
Right. 

0:48:06 - Speaker 1
We see somebody hurting and like, oh, i want to help them, but then, like, separating where you can help them, where you can't, but then also, like, like that's emotionally draining. And I think if I had to be around people all day where, like you're training them, they kind of treat you like the therapist, they're dumping on you a little bit And you do your best to be positive and kind of be there for them, but then you're also having to go back home and do that with your family And that's something I admire, that like you do this day in, day out. I think it would wear me out very quickly. How do you deal with that? 

0:48:37 - Speaker 2
How do you, kind of, how are you able to keep yourself in a place where, like that doesn't take too much from you, like you said, like We both yeah, we're very empathetic to other people that kind of way, and I just feel like I would let people down If I didn't show up one day, and I hate taking days off because I feel like I'm failing them, you know, like Whatever. 

0:49:02 - Speaker 1
But do you show up for yourself, like, do you feel like you ever need to show up for yourself more? We're like maybe you got to protect yourself and protect your emotions more, protect your mental health more. 

0:49:11 - Speaker 2
Yeah, a couple times here and there, i've definitely felt that way. I don't know really, i know I felt it. I don't know what the situation was, but I definitely felt it before. I don't know I just I'm. I always Remind myself to like how lucky I am to do what I do. Right like it's. Do I get up, put on some clothes? doesn't have to be fancy, what a work. 

I see my friends every day. We lift weights. Everybody gets better. Like go home, right, i get the lift weights. I get to talk to guys like you. Like friendships are amazing, like How many people have that You know? it's just, it's crazy. 

0:49:54 - Speaker 1
No, that's a good point. So so for you, it it's. I mean, obviously you have a purpose and a passion with doing this, so there's that that drives you enough. But on top of that, it sounds like you've done such a great job of always putting like keeping yourself in a positive mental place when it comes to this, because You, you think of the positive before you think of the negative. Yeah, that's kind of maybe a look where, like, your Mechanism for dealing with this is focus on the positive and don't put some negatives Oh, i'm tired, i don't want to get up at 4 am Every day. 

No, you're like that's just, that's what I do. I get to enjoy, i get to do it. Yep, that's. I think that's so powerful because I do. You have said that to me Multiple times over the years. You say I get to do this now, i have to do this. It's always. I get to do this. Yep, i get to train people. I get to help people get better. Yeah, so that that that really pride drives you. And then, like when you see people actually get better. 

0:50:44 - Speaker 2
Oh, that's amazing. That's got you know. 

0:50:46 - Speaker 1
It's amazing, yeah that's really what makes all this like the feel for you. 

0:50:49 - Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, that is amazing, you know, it's just. And then at the same time, when People don't get better, i feel their pain of it and frustration too. But I hope I think that helps me learn And try different avenue and don't be so close and try to always be a student, you know it? 

0:51:08 - Speaker 1
do you feel like there's times where, like when people aren't getting better to like, figure out, like Not to put too much yourself into it, because you, you almost like you can't put too much into one person when you have so many people here. You're training. Yeah do you ever find that becoming an issue and like having to pull back there? 

0:51:25 - Speaker 2
Yeah, sometimes I'll feel that and then maybe talk to them to try to come in at a different time So we can maybe figure some stuff out and just try to revolve the time that we have together also to like just try to obviously recognize that This is above my pay grade and try to get, you know, use a network of people that I have that try to go see somebody else and then I can learn from them. I like sending people to people I know, because then I know we'll talk and then I'll learn a little bit. I'm going back and forth and that kind of stuff and that's exciting for me too. I like learning about Just everything. You know the body, the mind, you know whatever. 

And one of our friends is a PT and she shot me this YouTube thing of like where pain comes from right, and then my, i just always thought like if your thumb hurts, it comes from your thumb, and then this whole thing of like it starts at your brain And then went through the all of it, you know, and I'm like, wow, i, 43 years old, i've had pain, heard of pain, but I don't know anything about pain and I was like, wow, this is cool, i love this, and it would have never happened if I didn't reach out to her first and start talking about some situations at the gym That we're going. 

0:52:42 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean through the years, it's like one of my favorite things with you, as we We're literally always coming each other with a haji. Did you hear? 

0:52:52 - Speaker 2
this Yeah, you're amazing at that. Like that is amazing. like when you tell me stuff, i just sit there and listen. I'm like, okay, where do I find you know like you're? your Research skills and ability to take in information is insane, and you relay it to me So well in a way that I understand it and I love that and I literally think the exact same of you. No. 

0:53:16 - Speaker 1
I love when you tell me stuff, because I love the way you research things. I love the way that you'll break down stuff to me looks, how you'll explain instilling to me. You'll explain these little things and, yeah, i also love the way your mind likes to experiment. 

0:53:30 - Speaker 2
I love my things. I was insane Yeah, i love that Yeah like I Know, like you. 

0:53:36 - Speaker 1
Again, this goes back to like you think you're not smart, or like you say like I'm not the smartest guy. There's so many little things about me that I've learned and I only have because of you. Um, that's the way I treat the physical body, the way I've, like, worked with my own body. You were the first person that was like oh, like this hurts Well, and it's funny because you brought up the pain thing. You're the first person Oh, your back hurts, well, let's, let's roll out your quad right here, put pressure on, remember that. 

Yeah, yeah, yeah like two minutes of some pressure on my VM, oh, and my back would like release, yeah, and I was like, like you were the one. You're the first person to connect that kind of stuff for me And like now, the way like I work with my body is Based on this framework that I started from you and the way that you process it. And it's funny, because now There's all this like industry of like the movement, industry and people are movement practice, an optimal movement and posture, all that crap. And You, like you were addressing it in ways that I don't think Like you didn't read it from a book. It was just the ways that like seems like you saw people move and how you would do things to help people Move better, that like now you're seeing people talk about it like more, though. 

Yeah official context and again I I pride a lot of the things I learned, on what I kind of learned from you back. That's awesome when I came back in, it started coming in 2014. You know, from 2014 on, like I got so much stronger in those first few years that they kept powerlifting and working with you, Yeah and it's like yeah, i, so again I. 

I think you're a genius in ways that people can't comprehend and for you, your genius comes in the way that you You see people move and you see people's how they interact with the world. You're very good at reading people and like Tell them, like figuring out what they need to take that next step. You're not yeah, you're not gonna maybe be the most book smart, which is funny because I also think you can pick up a book in Al-Kharnati and and read it and process it and understand the pathways Al-Kharnati is taking in your body to do this or that, and maybe we don't. 

We're not gonna understand it as well as the Yeah researching it right, but you're still able to read it and break it down in a way that I don't think you realize How many people would read something like that and would so quickly get overwhelmed. Oh, that's funny. I'm like, maybe I'm maybe one of the few people at the gym that, like I can read it with you and possibly like break it down a little bit. Yeah, yeah, but that we're not normal in that sense, like most people do not do that. Like your brain is special, i hope, like I. I try to. I want to press that on you as much as I can, because I appreciate, yeah, i really. 

I think you have a skill and a talent there. 

0:55:59 - Speaker 2
Oh, that's great. 

0:56:00 - Speaker 1
But so Now, getting from your 20s in your 30s, you had all this growth. You kind of went through a lot of change. You like drank less. You got married. Now It's been four years, four years So kind of. In your later 30s You got married. Um, how do you, how of like your opinions, change of like Judging the world around you and judging people around you since getting married? Like, do you do you like? do you have any like situations where, like, you used to look at something one way and now you look at it? So definitely, oh sure. 

0:56:35 - Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah, especially like Like my wife is super, like she's the best and she's really She's the positive side in things and stuff like that, but with like kids. I never had kids. So when we got married, i had two kids right off the bat, and their teenagers, and you know that kind of stuff. 

Two-teenage daughters and I'm like Holy fuck, what is their problem? Like, why are they crying? Nothing happened. But You know, she just is like calm about it. Explains the me. You know certain things and stuff like that. I always thought, like You know, when people had like misbehaved kids or crazy ass kids, i'm like man, these kids, these parents are not taking care of these kids. That's not even close to like real life, like it is The most complicated thing I've ever been a part of, and just like the emotional roller coaster and You're just like and you forget, like you were a teenager once, you did the same thing. 

I'm sure you know like her, just the different degrees, and I know it's. It's got to be so hard for the kids because At any moment they know what their friends are doing their phones, they have a snapchat, they can follow their friends life 360. Like the fear of missing out has got to be horrendous for the kids and like Or if there is bullying going on, they can do it on there too and never get away. 

But, yeah, the kids man that's. And I know like when you have kids it's gonna be, like it's gonna be the the best thing ever and Just like the learning process of it is gonna change your mind, like I thought I'd be like like, give them everything I didn't have, right, sure, try to teach them things, like doing all that. And then I'm like, oh my god, this is so hard. Like one, you know, give a shit what I have to say. And two, like How can I do? you know, i try to give structure, but it's not really. I mean, there's so many things going on and then I have to be at work, or Molly has to be at work, or whatever. 

You're like, holy fuck, i hope they do a good job at like trying to parent that situation with the information that we give them At least we try to give them information To like just say for me good choices, but yeah, fucking crazy. 

0:59:02 - Speaker 1
So you, you've worked with so many kids that like you almost like met them when they were middle schoolers And you've gotten to see them almost like through college and stuff so many athletes. How does that like play into this for you with like kids now and like the fact that you've gotten to see kid grow for So much of your career because you've worked with kids From young through? 

yeah, yeah and seeing them mature, seeing them go through their own struggles How does that like? what things have you kind of learned from there and maybe try to apply to kids? Yeah, also the difference between boys and girls, oh right, huge. 

0:59:34 - Speaker 2
Um, yeah, i mean there was a group of kids. They were like seventh grade and I Still have some of them to this day and they're 25 And they have houses and girlfriends and wives and I think one has a kid and like. And I remember when they were young and like fucking assholes, like they were just such Assholes and I'm like I'd go around a room at the end of some of the sessions We do like planks or abs or push-up pyramids or whatever and be like In, like Joe, you, you're gonna be a hairdresser when you grow up and the kids would laugh and they're like do me nice. And I'd be like you're gonna own a gay bar. 

1:00:18 - Speaker 1
And the kids would be like, oh my. 

1:00:19 - Speaker 2
God, that's funny you are. You're gonna be in prison. And it's funny and they all like I see them now and they're great, They're just super good And you just learn that like they're just kids, Like they're just learning and growing in the world, And you only got so much information that they're dealing with. They just need to take in more and get mature And they're every single one of them is a wonderful person. 

1:00:46 - Speaker 1
Do you see different characteristics between the ones that, like, excelled in the lifting world compared to the ones that didn't? 

1:00:52 - Speaker 2
Good question. 

1:00:54 - Speaker 1
You see, enough kids might come in and put in the half ass effort. 

1:00:58 - Speaker 2
I would say the kids that had the worst genetics and were the weakest, last the longest and become the strongest, and the ones that everything comes easy never really went as far as I thought they could be. Obviously, maybe they're lost interest, but I feel like I mean, i have a thing that I've seen. Everybody got laughs and it's a joke, but I'm like the slowest learners are always the strongest And like they pick up techniques slower, they're just not as athletic, but they keep doing it And they're getting stronger in time and they're learning so many wrong techniques to fix that they become super efficient at it, you know, and But people that are really I mean, if you're really good at something, it's gotta get boring It's like not fun to get better at it, because it takes it's a challenge, it's like that 80-20 rule, i think, like you can get 80% of results 20% of the effort and then the last 20% takes 80% of the effort, right? 

1:02:06 - Speaker 1
So what you're almost like, maybe what you see is the kids are already past that They didn't have to put in much for to get that 80%. For them to get the last 20 is an instrumental amount of effort. But the kids who are actually at zero they can like that 20% effort gets them so far and that feels so good. 

Right, So that's a great way of putting it Yeah like they have more steps to take and our brain works on. Every time we complete something, we release dopamine. So if you have more little things to complete, which is I got better at this, i got better at this instead of just having it come naturally. 

1:02:40 - Speaker 2
Yeah. 

1:02:42 - Speaker 1
You got to build like that reward circuit right. Yeah, yeah, my effort slowly kept giving me more reward and effort reward, effort reward instead of That's true. Way more effort to get the next big step, because you're already at this advanced level. 

1:02:55 - Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, i mean, and it's. I mean I wanna say it's like 98%. true too. man, it's absolutely our buddy Booby. It was a terrible lifter. He stuck with it, he got some size, you know whatever, and you know his max squat was like 475 when he came in. You know he went through a bunch of ups and downs and stuff like that And I think the most he squatted was like 900. It was crazy. 

1:03:26 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

1:03:27 - Speaker 2
But I mean yeah, and then yeah, just I mean, that's just one example, there's many more, but yeah. I don't know it's what I see in the kids for sure. 

1:03:35 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah, effort. It's amazing, a lot of it really. It comes out. So much of it comes down to effort. 

1:03:41 - Speaker 2
Effort and consistency are the two things that, if you have, you will be good and happy at, whatever you do. Whatever you decide to do, consistently and then put the effort in, you'll be fine. 

1:03:55 - Speaker 1
So okay, so like mental health for you back in the day wasn't necessarily much of a thing that you thought about, but the way you traversed it was almost to that effort of consistency. And like now, in, like your later life, do you find that like you do have to be conscious of mental health more. 

1:04:14 - Speaker 2
Yeah. 

1:04:14 - Speaker 1
As opposed to maybe not having to be conscious of it as much when you're younger. 

1:04:17 - Speaker 2
Yeah, Okay, definitely. There's more people involved in my life that I can't just ignore and go when you know it'll go silent or something like that. 

1:04:25 - Speaker 1
I'm just like it's easy to be anxious and then sit in a room by yourself to lie and see if it goes away. 

1:04:29 - Speaker 2
Yeah, write it out. 

1:04:30 - Speaker 1
Yeah, as opposed to while I'm anxious. But I have to be better for these people, So now I have to do things to make my anxiety better, So when I'm around them I can be more there for them. 

1:04:39 - Speaker 2
Yep, okay, yeah, for sure. 

1:04:41 - Speaker 1
Yeah, is there like any words of wisdom that, like you almost wish you can go back and give yourself At all? 

1:04:48 - Speaker 2
Me That's a problem. I feel like probably somebody would have just told me to be more patient with others. I feel like, maybe because I feel like sometimes I was very impatient at times and then you just say the wrong thing, you lose your temper, you know like that kind of stuff, And we are very empathetic And you never want to hurt anybody's feelings off of just you had a bad day or being a dick or something like that. 

Just have a little bit more patience. And yeah, i think I mean also I wish I could still do this, so I would, whatever. But I wish I would have just found out how to be more handy when I was younger, like how to run a tape measure, how to do anything. Nobody ever, i never had anybody to show me. You know we joke around about that now but like I'm sure I can still do it now, but yeah, there's only so much time. But yeah, i wish somebody would have. Just like you can be so independent if you learn how to look at a simple car or tires or brakes, or fill the shelf or learn a little bit about plumbing. There's so much money of fucking wasted paying other people and you're handy, you're super handy, like yeah. 

1:06:17 - Speaker 1
So it's almost like you wish, like somebody back then just would have told you like you're capable if you put in that effort, like maybe, like did you have like a self-limiting belief of like, well, i'm not a plumbers, i can't do plumbing. You know, when like somebody was like well, no, you could. You're an effortful person, you know how to put in effort. 

1:06:32 - Speaker 2
Yeah, I'm capable. Yeah, you're capable, you're very capable, So maybe yeah, i always is just like I'm gonna fail. Oh, i don't even know how to start. You know like, yeah, i wish that would have happened. 

1:06:48 - Speaker 1
One of my favorite things I've ever been told about you was from Justin Quintero, which is you were the first person to tell Justin that you believed in him and you believed he could do what he like wanna do with personal training and like well that's awesome. 

1:07:05 - Speaker 2
I never knew that. 

1:07:06 - Speaker 1
Yeah, like, and I think it's such a genuine party to you that you don't even probably, like, don't look at it as like a memorable thing. But to him it was a memorable thing that like you made him believe like he was capable, he could do it, and I think that's it's ingrained in you And I wish you would have had that when you were younger, because I've seen you have, like, some self-limiting beliefs in the past. I've seen you starting to break through them more and more now. But I do think I wish that you, when you were a kid, you would have had somebody tell you more, yeah, how capable you are, cause I see such a capable person in front of me And I see you continually like, grow on that And, yeah, i think that's it's an important thing. 

1:07:45 - Speaker 2
Yeah, that makes me feel good. Yes, but I'm just yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1:07:50 - Speaker 1
Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to sit down with me today, talk and open up a little bit, you know, give the world a little bit more of an understanding about yourself, and Yeah well, thank you. 

1:07:59 - Speaker 2
I got one for you. 

1:08:00 - Speaker 1
Okay. 

1:08:01 - Speaker 2
Would you rather go back 10 years and change one day 10 years ago, or go forward and see where you are in five years? These are things that we do all the time at the gym, by the way. Yeah, that's a great question Cause. 

1:08:15 - Speaker 1
Part of me wants to say, like I look forward to the future enough, in the sense that I believe I'm going to make it positive. Yeah, that I don't know if I need to see it to believe that I'm going to make it better, right, um, i don't know if it's good to also get too hung up on changing the past. I like recognizing the past. I like recognizing mistakes I've made and decisions that could have been better changing one day Yeah. I mean that's a very, that's a hard question. 

1:08:41 - Speaker 2
I mean I would just win the lottery 10 years ago. you know, like that I'd be like yeah. Yeah, all right. Would you rather suck one dick 10 times or 10 dicks one time each? Which one It's? Ah, you got a pig, you got a pig, oh boy, one dick 10 times. All right, That's I mean. That's an interesting way to do it. Yeah Yeah, You're forming a relationship with that person. 

1:09:07 - Speaker 1
So I got to call them their boyfriend by the end of this. 

1:09:10 - Speaker 2
Well, if you're good enough, Oh, that's fucking great. All right, one more. Okay, would you rather fuck a goat and have nobody else think that you ever fucked a goat, or never fucking go it, but everybody thinks you fucked a goat, ah yeah. 

1:09:29 - Speaker 1
Right, ah, is your image better than what your self-esteem? 

1:09:32 - Speaker 2
is. I don't know Which one, which one Yeah. 

1:09:36 - Speaker 1
Oh man, I don't know if I'm gonna answer that one. 

1:09:38 - Speaker 2
I'm gonna let my mind. Yeah, i'm gonna keep that little answer secret in my mind. 

1:09:42 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

1:09:43 - Speaker 2
All right man, That was awesome. Well, thank you, I appreciate it Yeah really thank you. 

1:09:47 - Speaker 1
Thank you, guys, for tuning in to another episode of I'm Trying Stones here. Please, if you like this, subscribe as we continue getting more content out. Awesome, all right, thank you. It was awesome. This is great. Oh, i'm sweating. I'm sorry. I realized what you said.