Resilience, Growth and Honesty: An Introspective Journey w/ Joey Nielsen

In this episode, I interview Joey Nielsen who pulls back the curtain on his life, complete with the ups and downs, joys, and struggles that have contributed to his personal growth. Raised amidst the hardworking ethos of North Central Iowa, Joey unpacks the unique family dynamics from his childhood, marked by his biological father's absence and the unwavering support of his mother and adoptive father. 

We explore Joey's adolescence, detailing his battles with mental health, and how these experiences shaped his relationships and communication skills. We'll also touch upon his intriguing journey with therapy, revealing how it led to significant personal growth, gave him insight into his coping mechanisms, and helped him understand the influence of his past on his relationships.

Transcript

0:00:13 - Speaker 1
Hi and welcome to another episode of On Turned Stones. Today I'm going to be interviewing Joey Nielsen, somebody else that I've met through Winner's Edge, while, coincidentally, I actually worked with him at ATC for a short period of time before I left that company. So just to start out the interview here, would you kind of tell people a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your past? 

0:00:31 - Speaker 2
Yeah, I guess. Born and raised in North Central Iowa, kind of moved to a few different places after that and ended up living in Colorado for a little bit and back to Iowa and now out here in Wisconsin. 

0:00:48 - Speaker 1
Okay, and what do you currently do for work? 

0:00:51 - Speaker 2
So I design transmission lines, little substation stuff too, but yeah, a lot of people confuse it with automotive transmission lines, but actually it's big overhead stuff which you know obviously. 

0:01:07 - Speaker 1
Yeah, people call the front desk and ask about automotive transmissions all the time and the front desk ladies would always talk about how they'd have to like like no, no, not the transmission we do. 

0:01:17 - Speaker 2
Yeah, when I first found the job posting online, that's what I thought it was automotive. Actually, I researched the company and realized I was completely off. Yeah. 

0:01:28 - Speaker 1
Okay, so which part of Iowa did you grow up in? 

0:01:30 - Speaker 2
So very North Central If you went up Interstate 35, just off Interstate 35, almost at the Minnesota border. 

0:01:41 - Speaker 1
Okay. 

0:01:42 - Speaker 2
Clear Lake, Mason City area, Forest City. Iowa is actually the town. I'm from Forest City, okay. 

0:01:50 - Speaker 1
Can you talk a little bit about your childhood and you can kind of start however you'd like and I'll take it from where you say. I'll kind of dig in there a little bit deeper, but just kind of, generally speaking, give a little bit more background about your childhood, growing up in Iowa. 

0:02:02 - Speaker 2
Yeah, I guess at first we grew up pretty small house, pretty, I guess I'd say we didn't have a lot of money, pretty poor. The town itself wasn't exactly the richest town in the world, but it did have a lot of few rich people in it too. So where I'm from is where they make Winnebago Motorhome. 

0:02:30 - Speaker 1
Oh, so it's a big factory town. 

0:02:33 - Speaker 2
Okay yep, I'd say the factory takes up half of the town and then more than three quarters of the people either worked at Winnebago or had worked at Winnebago, so it's just a lot of factory stuff. Everybody's worked there. I'd say I worked there in the summers and I worked there after college and all my friends had worked there in the summer. That's the town, big factory town. So yeah, so growing up everybody I knew, their dad, worked there and the factory itself kind of funded the town I guess, for lack of a better term and built a lot of the housing. 

0:03:13 - Speaker 1
So pretty small town in a sense that, like everybody, knew each other. 

0:03:16 - Speaker 2
Pretty much. It wasn't. Very often you ran into somebody you don't know and yeah, I was just back this last weekend and, yeah, it's over again in the people I know. 

0:03:28 - Speaker 1
Like everybody just knows everybody's business, kind of. 

0:03:29 - Speaker 2
Pretty much, yeah. Yeah, it's a little different now, I think, than it used to be. Town's kind of changed, winnebago's kind of changed, so it's a little bit different than it used to be. It's still a small town, it's just. Now there's more. A lot of people have moved away and different people have moved in, so it's not, as I don't know what you'd want to call it basically where everybody is kind of born and raised there. Now it's just kind of they get a lot more people from other towns too now. 

0:03:56 - Speaker 1
Okay, okay, so kind of like a little bit more on like family and home life. Were your parents both around? 

0:04:05 - Speaker 2
Yes and no. So I still have the same mom I've had since. You know. They gave birth to me and at the time, early on, my biological father was there. I'm adopted now by my dad. So, yeah, my biological dad was kind of in and out, not exactly the greatest human being all the time. So I know he did some time, did a lot of stuff he shouldn't have. So, yeah, I'd say he was around, but it would have been better to not have him around probably. 

0:04:45 - Speaker 1
So there was, you feel like, almost more of a negative influence in your life to have your biological father around and any positive or if there was a positive, it was completely overshadowed. 

0:04:53 - Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean in all reality. I can't. It could just be my memory too. My memory does suck, but yeah, I don't really remember any positives from him being around. There could have been some, I just remember any of them. 

0:05:08 - Speaker 1
So your mom got remarried. Since you know, when you were born, she was with your biological dad at the time. She's been remarried and now you have a stepdad that you do refer to as your father. It sounds like. 

0:05:19 - Speaker 2
Well, no, so my adoptive dad is who I call dad. I mean he's my dad. He's obviously the one I know best. And who did all the dad work? You know? Yeah, you know, he's my dad. So when I refer, when I'm talking, if it comes up in this conversation where, when I say my dad, I mean the dad that adopted me, if I have to say biological dad, the dad I'm talking about. That's just how I've grown up. That's how I say it. 

0:05:48 - Speaker 1
Okay okay, so your biological dad, what age do you remember? Like him, kind of not like, because he must have been around for some period of time. 

0:05:57 - Speaker 2
Yeah. 

0:05:58 - Speaker 1
He wasn't around consistently anymore. 

0:05:59 - Speaker 2
Yeah. 

0:06:00 - Speaker 1
What age was that Were like? Maybe, like I'm guessing, your parents, your mommy or biological dad had separated. 

0:06:05 - Speaker 2
Yeah, at some point I know I'm doing some time. I can't remember if it was worse happened then or not, but my best guess is like maybe that sixth range plus or minus thing or two you know it's. You know, when you're at little everything kind of just seems like it was the same year. 

0:06:27 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:06:28 - Speaker 2
And I don't think I've ever actually asked my mom exactly how old I was. To be honest with you, I just kind of remember a few things you know. Then just wasn't there anymore. And you have siblings. Yep, I have two older sisters, one four years older than me and the other one was five. 

0:06:46 - Speaker 1
Okay, okay. So when you're a sixth, they're a poly, like what 11, 12 years old. 

0:06:50 - Speaker 2
Yeah, something like that. 

0:06:51 - Speaker 1
So they probably had a little bit more impact from your dad, because was he their biological dad as well. 

0:06:58 - Speaker 2
Yes, my youngest sister. Yes, my other sister, no, so technically my oldest sister is kind of my half sister, but she's my sister. 

0:07:13 - Speaker 1
Do they have negative memories of him as well? 

0:07:16 - Speaker 2
Kind of negative, I think so I guess we don't talk about it a lot. I've seen when we were younger we did this thing, I think at the time I think it was called the alatine, but it might have been called something else. You know, it's kind of where kids go. When you have parents that were, you can see they're drug abusers or alcoholics and I remember them drawing some pictures of some of the bad stuff that happened. So I'm sure they remember a lot better than I do. You know, I can just kind of piece things together but I don't think that well, but I know they remember better than I do. 

0:07:59 - Speaker 1
But generally speaking, you guys don't talk about it, like you now won't talk about it. 

0:08:03 - Speaker 2
It's not that anybody won't talk about it. I don't think my mom's always been very honest about stuff like that, which is good, I think. Just to be honest about it, I just never pride, I never really asked. It's just not my personality to kind of dwell on it. You know some pretty bad stuff happened and just know what happened. You know I wasn't upset that it happened to me. I was kind of upset about it happening to the people around me. But you know nothing I can do about it and I think I guess I've just never talked to my sisters that much about it. To be honest with you, was he? 

0:08:46 - Speaker 1
abusive with your mom. 

0:08:48 - Speaker 2
Yeah. 

0:08:49 - Speaker 1
Yeah, because you kind of you just kind of hit on the fact that, like for you, you didn't dwell on the fact that it happened to you, but that you were kind of more upset. It happened to people around you. So, like as a little kid, you're kind of like protective. Were you like protective of your mom and your sisters? 

0:09:03 - Speaker 2
Yeah, I've still, I guess, got quite a protective nature about myself, and you know, a lot of it might come from that. My guess is that, yes, it does, or it was just part of my personality too. You know, it's hard to say for sure, but yeah, I think I've definitely got a protective nature about myself. 

0:09:22 - Speaker 1
Almost like maybe when you're little did you have an influence of thinking you had to be the man of the household. 

0:09:27 - Speaker 2
Yeah, there was a lot of times where I thought, yeah, I kind of took that on, even with my dad around, for a few years, and then they got divorced. You know, not long later my mom got remarried again. So, even with my stepdad around, I still felt like, you know, that I had to watch over my sisters more. Yeah, because I was I guess, for lack of a better term closer with them than like my dad or stepdad was. Just because I'm there longer, you know, almost by default, I was more responsible for them, which you know I wasn't, but yeah, I certainly felt like I was, you know. So there was a lot of that and a lot of being protective of them. As I got older, through, you know, middle school and high school, when you start maturing more, you think you're tougher. That's all I always would, you know, protect them or, you know, fight with people. I thought that were. 

0:10:31 - Speaker 1
Did you feel like they took that well, did they like that you wanted to play that role for them in their life? Or did they kind of did they look at you as our younger brother and hey, you're quick being silly, like? 

0:10:42 - Speaker 2
yeah, it's hard to say. I think maybe one sister probably thought that the yeah, just crazy of me to think in the other one maybe appreciate it. It's hard to say for sure, I don't. You know, I guess we've never talked about it and I need to give out their opinion without asking them. But like, yeah, I think there's probably one, and one would be my guess. Okay, okay. 

0:11:04 - Speaker 1
Yeah. So then, at what age did your adopted father, that you now called dad, come into your life? 

0:11:12 - Speaker 2
I don't think it was too long after, so probably I'm guessing you know. Another year later would be my guess. I guess it. I hate that at that age I just can't remember exactly when things happened. I wish I knew. You know about that, which I guess I should ask, since I wish I knew. But yeah, I don't think it was very long after, because we're still in the same house and stuff. When they got together. 

0:11:42 - Speaker 1
So how was that for you? 

0:11:44 - Speaker 2
It was good. I like my dad a lot, I love him. It was. He did everything he could to, you know, help us quite a bit and my grandparents, his parents, helped a lot too, and so it was nice to have like this nice group of family, you know, because I don't recall, with my biological dad ever, like you know, any aunts or uncles around or grandparents. I just don't recall it. I don't think they were around ever. Like I said, I don't think they talked to my biological dad at all. So it was nice, it was nice to have a community in. Like my dad was from my hometown too, so you know he knew people, I buddy knew him. 

He's a good guy, had some things he was going through at the time but never was like mean to us, never you know always treated myself really well. 

0:12:44 - Speaker 1
So that transition of him becoming a part of your life wasn't a relatively easy one, not one that was like a rocky road or anything. No, he came in. He was like a good example, a father figure like I'm kind of sound like a good example of a man, just yeah, no, he didn't. 

0:13:01 - Speaker 2
He, he was good, it was great to have him around. For sure I really appreciate you know him adopting all three of us and you know, helping take care of us, especially at that stage of your life. You know it's nice to have somebody around, somebody. You know it's kind of give the shit and stuff. It's definitely helps. 

0:13:22 - Speaker 1
You know, and I think for every I shouldn't say every, but for every guy, like it's good to have some sort of father figure around, especially when that can set a good example, I guess yeah, I think as much as like a mom can sometimes like try to provide that masculine energy in the household, especially for boy in a household like a man or father kind of, it's much easier for them to fill that role yeah, I think so. 

0:13:50 - Speaker 2
I think that's just, you know, bred into us, and it's not that a mom can't do that, because my mom still did a pretty good job at the times where it was just us. But yeah, I think it definitely helps, just like a vice versa. The girls I think it's good to have a good female example too. 

0:14:09 - Speaker 1
You know, I just I think it just help get spread into us so, like, how would you describe, like, your relationship with your mom through all that time? Obviously there was like a you were protective, yeah, um. Or you guys like and she was in, you also met, like him the fact that she was always very honest with you guys about stuff, like she didn't try to hide stuff with you. 

You know, especially like maybe if there was abuse with your biological father and her and sounds like he had like drug problems that she probably, whether you saw it directly or she, informed you about it. If you talked to her about it, yeah, like how was, how was just like your interpersonal relationship with her? 

0:14:45 - Speaker 2
yeah, it's pretty good, pretty close with my mom and I do think that her always being really honest helped a lot. I think had she tried to hide stuff from us and I think you get that resentment if there's things you probably should know and don't know and somebody kind of kept from you, I think just in general, I don't think that's good for relationships. So, yeah, her being honest definitely helped a lot and she's just she's always been there. She's not like ever not really been there to help any one of us out. You know, it's definitely one of her strength. She's always been there to help us or just been there period. So it's always been pretty good, I think. 

0:15:33 - Speaker 1
I don't think we've ever really had any major issues so this is kind of like an arch here, but like do you see how like your relationship with your mom could have played into like relationships on their women? Like in your life? So like partners you've had, your you're currently married, it's like your current one, like how that you know? Do you see any like similarities there? 

0:15:54 - Speaker 2
um, I think, yeah, some of it would just be just being as open as possible, I guess, and just not really trying to hide anything or lie about anything. I feel like I've always been fairly honest with people, you know, sometime to a detriment. You know, some people don't always want or need to hear the truth, but I feel like that's kind of how I've always been and maybe that's why it's just at least, I think, fairly truthful all the time. Sometimes it's brutal, but you know, I think it's just and I think that helped my wife and I's relationship to it's just trying to communicate more, forcing ourselves to communicate more, especially if there's something you know that might be upsetting to the other person as you try to talk about it yeah, yeah, for sure. 

0:16:53 - Speaker 1
So when you're young, you mentioned those like I don't know what was the name of that program that you guys I think it was a lot of team yeah where it's like a program for teens who have like struggles at home, whether it was with parents who were yeah, yeah, users. 

0:17:12 - Speaker 2
So my dad, the one that adopted me is he had some struggles with alcoholism for a little while. I hope he doesn't mind me saying I don't think he would so kind of. When he came into the picture we started going. There's this little it's now the police station, I think but this little building in four city where you'd go and my sisters and I would go and there are some other kids there and stuff too, and I think your parents were off in another room having their meetings and we were kind of with sister Mary, I think was who it was, and she would kind of sit, the kids and we'd talk about stuff and I think occasionally some maybe therapists or something. You know, this was the 80s, so who knows how, what it really was. 

The best there is there, just like a counselor dude counselor, yeah, or something that came in and they would talk over stuff with you there. You could definitely see there was. I think my sisters and I handled a lot of the stuff pretty well, but you could see where there was kids whose parents were not handling it well and the kid weren't handling it well either. You know, there's definitely some more troublesome kids than what we were, but I mean, we still probably got a lot out of it so you like the program, you like going to it yeah, as far as I can remember and I don't know if it's because I got free root beer when I was there but as a kid I was like oh up in candy. 

Yes, please, I'd show up all the time. But yeah, I think it was as much as I can remember and I remember that I guess that sister Mary later she was super sweet for nice, so good to have some, you know, positive adults around, I guess so did they like ask you guys to talk about emotions and how to handle? 

emotions. I you know I don't remember a lot about it, to be honest with you, but I think so I did. I like that picture thing. I specifically remember that cuz well, the pictures my sister was pretty upsetting to me. But yeah, I would think if you got to that stage of like drawing those pictures, there was definitely somebody there talking through feelings and stuff with you. 

But I think, like I said, I think some of the other kids probably needed more than us, got a little more attention than us, which was fine. We were doing okay or is okay as we could be. So I think it was a good program and I think it still exists and I don't know if it was called alising at the time, but it might have been. I think it's changed. 

0:19:59 - Speaker 1
Those do you like, how old were you when you like attended this? How long did you attend? 

0:20:04 - Speaker 2
it. I think it was just a year or two, maybe that, um, so I can remember it just maybe a year worth or so, yeah, and like what age? Probably that same, like seven, what they're minus, you know they're pretty young yeah yeah, yeah, okay. 

0:20:26 - Speaker 1
So didn't like getting into your teenage years and stuff, even like progressing in the high school. Um, did you find yourself like having any mental health problems from? You know any any of the things that happened in your childhood? 

0:20:40 - Speaker 2
yeah, I mean, I think in general I just whether it was for my child or whether it was. I think there's some family genes they're definitely gone through the years too that have had some to do it, but um, but yeah, I didn't know it at the time. But through high school, through a lot of high school I was I had depression. I was kind of, I guess, diagnosed with that later on, like in high school. I didn't know. And then kind of had I talked with a therapist, she's like, yeah, you definitely did when you're in high school and I had had like. So I had depression through high school and I had one incident of like PTSD I guess, as I was going through it and stuff. So, like I was, I just didn't know. 

You know, and that's the shitty thing about being a teenager, is there so much stuff you just don't know. You don't know if you're feeling weird feeling because you know you're going through puberty or your brain's developing, or if you're actually have depression and stuff like that. So it's just it's hard to know and especially you know, so it would have been 90s when I was going through high school. There still wasn't a lot out there for people to know what was going on, but yeah, there was definitely a lot of struggles internally. I don't think I don't know if anybody outside of me knew it was going on, so I think I hit it pretty well. But yeah, definitely there for sure. What kind of outlets did? 

0:22:18 - Speaker 1
you have. 

0:22:18 - Speaker 2
Or do you remember? So, like, definitely hanging out with my friends, I hang out with my friends, I have a good core group of friends and still have the core group of friends. We still get together once a year and we talk all the time. So a lot of that was coping. But the coping I was doing was, you know, almost for lack of a better term almost ignoring it and just hanging out with your friends and having fun with your friends. And then we play basketball, a lot Running I did a lot of running in high school, you know, which I think helped. Exerting yourself quickly, I think helps too and just get you up and out. So yeah, I think my friends helped a lot and definitely staying active helped a lot too. 

0:23:05 - Speaker 1
So socializing was like a very big thing for you. Yeah, for sure it's not like when you got into depressive episodes or you know, obviously didn't recognize them as depressive episodes at the time, but maybe in hindsight they could have been. You didn't just self isolate, you kind of just really, you know, pulling yourself and not talk to anybody. You'd reach out, you'd talk to friends and obviously not go to them and there's a problem because you didn't recognize there's a problem, but you just had fun with them and that was kind of your way of getting through it. 

0:23:32 - Speaker 2
Yeah, and I had friends that you know we're going through stuff too, so I think everybody was just kind of there for each other and I guess some of the other stuff I did was I really kind of excuse me um, hit the books pretty hard. 

I remember seventh grade. So my old coworkers gave me a lot of shit about this but called me a former genius Because like in seventh grade I there's some tests in Iowa you take and I aced them all and so I took my like ACTs and like eighth grade and did pretty well on them and stuff. So, like through high school and through middle the late parts of middle school I like really hit the books hard. So it was like I was always distracting myself with something and I got really into math and because I just wanted to sit there and try to figure something out and so that helped. So a lot of my depression was just not dealing with it, it was finding something else to do. So I was always busy and I like to this day, like I still, like I don't like sitting still for a long time until it's like the end of the day. 

0:24:40 - Speaker 1
Like you, have an overactive mind, yeah. 

0:24:43 - Speaker 2
I've always had to be doing something Otherwise I started getting in in my own head and I don't like it, so I just go find something to do. 

0:24:52 - Speaker 1
So how did that progress into like post post high school for you? 

0:24:57 - Speaker 2
So yeah, right after high school it was. It was kind of difficult because I so I had taken a year of college in my senior year and then it was just kind of went to. Okay, I had to move out for my mom's because at the time it was just the two of us living in the house and she then got an apartment. So I had to find a place to live and then it got kind of overwhelming. So I really got in my own head because I just didn't know how to do a lot of stuff, which some of the struggle is good to have, but some of it I just just wasn't the right time for me to have to do so Cause I just didn't know. So I had to figure out, you know, how to pay your electric bill and your phone bill and all that stuff, and some of it finding out the hard way. So I had quite a bit of stress and I think that didn't help, you know. 

So I kind of really got into myself and I and I don't know if I just was born with my dad's temper or just pressure like the depression, anxiety was getting to me and sometimes you have to find anxiety gets high and get really pissy and stuff, I would be angry a lot. You know, I was always mad at myself. I never really like I would yell at people and stuff like that, but mostly it was just at myself, like I was just mad at myself. So I'd punch a wall because, you know, dropped a wrench or something when I was working on the car or something. You know. Just dumb young guy shit where you, you know you're not placing some of the stuff in the right, you know, spot. 

0:26:41 - Speaker 1
You're just being mad for the sake of being mad it was kind of it was like another outlet of of your mental health was to express anger. Yeah, and obviously, yeah, a lot of guys are thinking they're younger 20s. That is how we deal with mental health problems, whether it's anxiety or depression. Yeah, as we do, just kind of we want to punch something, we want to help. 

0:27:04 - Speaker 2
We want to, and you almost think it's normal. Yeah, Because everybody else is. Every other friend of yours is doing it. 

You know so you think it's normal. It's not what you think it is. And also the alternative is pretty expensive. Like, yeah, going especially I was at that I didn't know you could do a therapy and stuff like that, and then if I did, I want to be able to afford it. Yeah, you know, especially at that time there was no mental health benefits at all. 

So it was kind of it kind of sucked at that age because there's nothing you can do, yeah, unless you have some sort of support and you go to somebody else and say you know, could you help me, help this? So at that age I certainly wasn't going to do that Tough guy on my own. I couldn't handle it myself. You know which? I wasn't handling it well, yeah. So yeah, I'd say right after that it was pretty stressful and I was in a relationship at the time and she was a year behind me in school and then. So I took my year of college and she was moving. So then I ended up moving to the same place. It was all foreign to me and I had to kind of figure that out and like where I moved to I was just adding more stress to it, making my temperament worse. 

0:28:19 - Speaker 1
So did that relationship last much longer. 

0:28:23 - Speaker 2
Not a lot longer, maybe another year or so or two, and it wasn't a really great one anyway. We were just very different and like, very like. I was probably when my depression was the worst. 

0:28:40 - Speaker 1
And. 

0:28:40 - Speaker 2
I'd say she's pretty positive person. So it was just like I think. You know, at first you think you balance each other out, but then after a while it's no, you're doing too different and it was just causing a lot of friction. And yeah, and I was just in a bad spot and I shouldn't have been concentrating on anybody else, I should have been concentrating on myself, and that's part of the hard part of like, in my opinion, like being in a relationship when you're young, like a serious one, isn't really that good of an idea, at least just in my opinion. But you think you've got to spend more time concentrating on yourself and getting yourself figured out. 

0:29:22 - Speaker 1
I don't disagree. I think you can kind of get caught up looking for somebody else to make you happy, especially like as a relationship gets serious. And now you're like looking for any like a little high that they can give you in a sense of like they tell you they love you, they make you feel special, whatever and like as it gets more serious, you like really start to like rely on that person to make you happy instead of folks that are doing things for yourself. 

0:29:44 - Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly, yep, I totally agree with that. 

0:29:48 - Speaker 1
So then how you imagine moving to Colorado? So was that like shortly after that period? 

0:29:54 - Speaker 2
Yeah. So after that was dating myself here, but that was 9 11 hit. And you know, then all of a sudden everything kind of started crashing, you know, and I had a job Right after after school. I worked as an auto tech for a little while until I could find a job in my line of work and I was designing some automotive repair parts and then 9, 11 hit and everything just sank. So half the company got laid off and that included me. 

And so then I was like oh shit, because I had broken up with my girlfriend and there was a couple deaths in the family that were really just affecting me and my depression was bad. Then I had some friends that they were moving to Colorado. When I asked if I could go with, I guess thank God they said I could because that helped a lot, was I got out of where I was at, you know, when somewhere else was able, like, bond with my friends and have some fun. So I kind of got out of my own head a little bit. So I'm glad they did that. 

How long were you in Colorado? It's a year, year and a half, you know. It's not a long time just kind of went spent whatever savings I had until then, because Colorado is not a cheap place to live, it's not a place to fight, it was just it was expensive, but we had a lot of fun. It was a good reason, I think, for me. And then after that, back to Iowa, because I really gotta go get a real job, start saving up some money. 

0:31:35 - Speaker 1
Okay Now. So like you mentioned, you grew up a little like poor household. You know I relate to that because I definitely grew up in a poor household and, like I've always had, like the survival, survivalistic, like sense to me about like everything I do, how I spend money and how I save money. Do you feel like that affected you as well in that same way growing up and how it affected you into your adult life? 

0:32:00 - Speaker 2
Yeah, I think it affected me in both ways, because I go like I can be pretty conservative with some items like food. I'm on want to eat it all like before, because we were cut I forget the term is now but didn't always know what we're going to eat and when and stuff like that and then. But I'm also kind of wasteful with it too, because I'm also like I'm going to die. I always have this thing in my head that coming to dies and I don't like that. I have that but I've always just had it and so I'm like I got, like I have that Corvette and I'm like I got to buy this thing because I always said I was going to get one. I'm like I'm not going to die before I get one. 

So like I could be wasteful at the same time that I'm like trying to hoard everything too. So if you ever look in my shop, at the house, like I still have items I've definitely hoarded because I think I'll need them again, not like bad hoarding, but like I have old nuts and bolts just in case I'm not like you know dumb stuff like that. But then another thing that really wasteful, so I kind of go a little bag before I still walk around the house to turn all the lights off. It's costing me, you know, penny that day because it's all LED stuff, but I'm like turning the damn lights. 

0:33:23 - Speaker 1
There's nothing better than using, like an old thing, that you hoard it in your garage for a long time and you finally found the right place for it. 

0:33:29 - Speaker 2
Oh well, that's the way to come to the gym helps, because Kirk always needs a nothing bolt. Somebody's breaking something. 

0:33:35 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. 

0:33:36 - Speaker 2
Okay, I've got that at the house I'm bringing in tomorrow. I had this. 

0:33:40 - Speaker 1
IKEA like bed thing where it's like multiple pieces of wood that like had a clot you know, two strips of cloth. It's like you know you could put the mattress and not have a box spray. And I saved all those pieces of wood because it was from both sides of the bed and it was like a bunch of these single pieces of wood. They're like one inch thick, maybe like less than that, and like to save them. For like seven or eight years. My wife kept giving me crap about the fact that I moved them and then one day I was like, oh, I need to build a dog fence that, like, I can close and open, that I can hold it for driveway. I was like I know exactly what I'm going to use Use those pieces. Oh my God, it was the most gratifying feeling to use those pieces of wood. 

0:34:16 - Speaker 2
Yeah, oh yeah, always chasing that high. Yeah, exactly that's I've done by definitely been there. Yeah, yeah. 

0:34:25 - Speaker 1
So I'd like to kind of like ask a little bit more than about like your marriage, like when did you meet your wife? So I met her. 

0:34:34 - Speaker 2
I'm gonna have my mid to late 20s, probably late 20s, okay. 

0:34:40 - Speaker 1
And right now you're 40, 29, 29, 20. 

0:34:44 - Speaker 2
Yeah, 40, 20. 42. Okay, yeah, so I think it was probably a 27 20. Yeah, I mean, I'd finally gotten a little bit better spot in life. I was figuring a few things out and then I met her. 

Yeah, we kind of hit it off right away, I guess. I don't know if you should say, but I actually met her at my ex's going away party, yeah, and we just kind of started there. You know, a couple of dates after that and she just kind of kept going. I think we get along pretty well. She's a huge smart ass. I've heard that I'm a smart ass. I don't know if I believe. But yeah, we got along pretty well right away. And yeah, and all this kind of clicked and fell in the blood Because I those guys was like I never, because no offense to my mom, but after seeing like her be married three or four times, was like maybe marriage isn't for me, and so that's why I went for a long time without ever being in a serious relationship again and stuff. And then ran into her and then you realize, oh, it's not that the example that was set for you, it's just you got to find the right person. 

Yeah, you know and just allow yourself to, I guess, fall for the right person you know. 

0:36:23 - Speaker 1
Do you guys have how many kids? 

0:36:25 - Speaker 2
together Two, two kids. Yeah, my son is 20, maybe 21 pretty soon. My daughter is 11. 

0:36:33 - Speaker 1
And is your son from a prior relationship. 

0:36:37 - Speaker 2
Yes, yes, so he's adopted by me. Okay, okay, he, yeah, I think was five when we met. So, yeah, I adopted him a couple of years later. 

0:36:51 - Speaker 1
Was that like a very meaningful thing for you in the fact that you had had an adopted father that really became your dad to you, that like to have adopted him and kind of had that connection? 

0:37:04 - Speaker 2
I think so. I guess sometimes I don't think about stuff that much like that, but yeah, I see what you mean. I definitely could understand how he felt. So I think that helped you could relate. Yeah, for sure I think you could relate Similar situations, you know, I feel like I maybe knew, you know, like what he was looking for in a father and stuff maybe a little better, because I had kind of been through the same thing. Yeah, I think I probably played a good part in that, for sure. 

0:37:40 - Speaker 1
And how was your relationship with him? How was it, you know, from adopting him and through the years, and how is it now? 

0:37:45 - Speaker 2
Yeah, it was pretty good and I don't think he's going to mind me talking about this, he's pretty open about it. But he had some struggles in high school a few years back, you know, a good couple years where he'd got depression, anxiety and was having panic attacks and stuff and just kind of wasn't making the right choices. And I think some of the experience that I had had before I could see it in him and my thought was, you know, I could help him out more because I had been through some of the same stuff and talk it through. But I think you know, with some young people and just in certain cases sometimes there is not a lot you can do. I realized that because you'd see, like parents, why can't that parent, you know, take care of their kid or kid to act right? And once you go through it yourself, you realize there's like I think you can't and shouldn't beat your kids and stuff, and like you can't, you're not like a qualified therapist, you can't like. And even when you go through some of the therapy family sessions, stuff like that, like sometimes there's just nothing to do. Their brains are developing, there's so much hormonal crap going on that there's just the kind of have to just wait it out, and that's what we did and he's doing well now. 

He got through it, you know, and I'm pretty proud of him he's got. You know he had a hard time getting through high school, graduated, and now he's. He's got a pretty decent job. He's welding and stuff. He's doing a good job. So I'm pretty proud of him for getting through all that stuff. It took a lot of effort on his part, a lot of effort on our part too, but we got through it. He's doing good now. So you're pretty close with him. 

0:39:39 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:39:39 - Speaker 2
I was just back this weekend he came on that it was for a car show thing and he did the crew man stuff. Yeah, we had a good time, and then he'll be 21 soon, so might be going back for that too. An extra good time there. Yeah, just to make sure, because my friend and my sister will really abuse him. 

0:40:02 - Speaker 1
And then now, comparatively, how is your relationship with your daughter? You know being younger, being a girl compared to a boy. 

0:40:08 - Speaker 2
Yeah, really close with my daughter. I think that, you know, not always, but I think that fathers and daughters and mothers and sons thing is pretty relevant. Like I really protect my daughter but I'm also like good friends with her too, I think, and we hang out a lot. She comes here to the gym with me a lot. Yeah, she's pretty open, she talks a lot of stuff All the time, but yeah, I think it's pretty good. 

0:40:41 - Speaker 1
Yeah, like you try to kind of set like a good role model for her. Yeah, being like a friend to her while still obviously being, I'm sure, a disciplinarian who like in her life still kind of tells her what to do, gives her guidance. But you also want to just be friendly enough to her that she sees you as like not a not just strictly somebody who just tells her what to do. 

0:41:02 - Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, and just trying to set a good example too, I think meeting my wife was a huge part in my life, like it settled me down. 

She would tell me like an asshole, or just like she picked up on sign me like just having some sort of mental issue, you know, and like I think she would notice that and kind of help me through it. So like with her, it was quite a change in my life, like there was definitely had more to live for and was definitely in a happier spot, you know, because I love her tons, like I owe her a lot and she helped me a lot with that. And then I'd say, probably about eight years ago, I almost had I don't know if you can have like a relapse of depression, but something happened with my daughter and I like totally reset my mind, like I lost my mind. I was very upset, very like mad. Like I wasn't mad at like my family or anything like that, I was more upset at myself and I figured that out through therapy again. So I started going back to therapy again, like real therapy, not just like school stuff. 

0:42:30 - Speaker 1
Like this is your real first time actually sitting down with a therapist. Is the post like the counselors? 

0:42:34 - Speaker 2
Yeah, like a real therapist yeah, not like the counselor is cool to talk to you and puppet and shit like that you know it was like real therapy, because then I started like I was just getting mad. 

I'd get mad at people at the grocery store Because I had lost my mind. Like I was just so frustrated with life. I felt like I had totally failed at like protecting my family and stuff like that and I was. I was a really bad spot and my wife suggested this and then she like finding a therapist, and then she just like basically lined it up for me because I almost needed that. 

0:43:12 - Speaker 1
So I think her. 

0:43:13 - Speaker 2
I don't think I've actually ever actually thanked her, thanked her, but I guess she's listening to this. Yes, thank you for setting that up. Setting that because she knew exactly what the right thing to do was and she did it. She set it up and just said go here, call this number, set up appointment, go. And sometimes, especially with stubborn old bastards like myself, like you, almost need somebody to do that. So I finally it's like she made it easy for me, so I didn't have an excuse. 

That's how I went and thank God I did, because she really calmed me down. We found the right balance of like therapy and medication. It was a great therapist Like she wouldn't like take my shit. She'd swear at me occasionally. I just like sitting there being a lump on a couch, she'd drag it out of me and stuff, and yeah it. 

I highly recommend it to people like, especially if you're going through something that really bad, like it helps a lot, like a lot. So anybody who's like oh, therapy for pussies, like fuck off, like it helps so much. And I can't recommend it enough for people like, even if you're not going through anything, even if you just think you need somebody to talk to, like one of the greatest things you can do for yourself. Because she found this balance of. She said you know, you got to take care of yourself too, you got to take care of your marriage and you've got to take care of your kids, but you've got to find that right balance. So after the stuff had happened, we weren't like it was like I was afraid to be like a town over from where my daughter was, like I was like I have to be there just in case you know, and I'd have anxiety attacks and stuff like that. 

And after a while of talking to her, we said, talking about you know, like were you, were it possible, things you know and stuff like that, and she would. She got me put on the right track for sure and told me, like you got to take your time with just your wife too. So we started going on more like dates just the two of us, because you know, when you have kids it's not always easy to just go on dates on yourself. So that helped a lot. It helped our relationship a lot at the time. So it was definitely a big positive that came out of that for sure. 

0:45:44 - Speaker 1
And prior to that. So, while you kind of had a little bit of experience with the counselors when you were younger, you had alluded earlier to the fact that, like it wasn't until later on this therapist I'm assuming with this person, with this therapist, they worked with us. She made you realize you were, you were going through depression in high school, but you didn't recognize it as depression at the time. So was this really your first time in your life that you, like faced the idea that, hey, that I have mental health problems and they're just like any other diagnosis that you get from a doctor. It's something that could be treated Were prior to that, you never, like, did you ever recognize having mental health issues? 

0:46:21 - Speaker 2
I think I recognized it because I think I saw it a lot around me too, through some of my family members and stuff, but I didn't take it serious. I guess, like you think you just have a case of being sad, you know, or like just not caring, you know, like there were times I didn't ever like I wasn't ever really suicidal, but I was like it didn't matter to me, like if I was alive or not, like I just didn't care, and that's definitely more than just a case of being Sad or something you know. So I just wasn't recognizing it in myself. I would see it in other people, but I just didn't, because I think I'm kind of an empath or whatever they want to call it, like where I can see things and other people, but I don't look inward all that often. So it definitely helped that for her health therapy help to was to be able to look inside more a. 

Lot of awareness then yeah, but I definitely became a lot more aware of, like, what I was doing, how I was feeling, I was acting. 

0:47:30 - Speaker 1
Was that awareness Almost like negative or bad at first, because you're aware of things that you never were aware of and now you have to deal with them. 

0:47:38 - Speaker 2
Yeah, it's tough. It's definitely tough at first because you almost feel like God, I'm a shitty person, you know, for feeling this and a lot of therapy is. I guess she was working with the understanding that it's not just you. You know like there's a lot of people who go through this and your first steps through it aren't gonna be easy, but it really pays off in the end because you can't really know what the problem is without knowing with the problem there. Just that journey through therapy and it definitely Help for sure. 

0:48:19 - Speaker 1
Yeah, so through all that time working with the therapist so you said it was about like eight years ago, right, like some sort of that um, would you say, like you say you like your relationship with your wife improved? Did your relationship with the kids improve as well? Yeah, out of that for sure. 

0:48:35 - Speaker 2
Okay for sure. Um, it definitely improved with my son too, because some things were frustrating for me too, and I'm sure they were for him too, and some of our occasion styles, because I'm very much a mr Fix it, like whatever happens, I have to fix it, I have to address. But I also have to know why Something happened and stuff and that's not always the best thing, like if your kid has a problem with something bad during them with the why question Isn't great and that's what I was doing. So she made me realize that you, why do you have to know why? Why do you have to like, why do you have to understand why your kid did something stupid, like just Help him get through it and help him to not do it again, kind of thing Definitely helped that. 

My wife said she'd definitely tell the difference, like when I started. So we had to find a balance of medication and stuff too, that kind of all mixed in with the therapy itself. And once we hit the sweet spot, my wife was like, yeah, you can definitely tell. You're like, in a way, better spot than you were. 

0:49:37 - Speaker 1
Did you used to look at like the anger you had in earlier 20s, almost like a personality type, like I'm just an angry person? 

0:49:44 - Speaker 2
Yeah, a lot of it. I thought it was well, that's how my biological dad was like very temperamental, something like I had to have gotten up from him, you know, and some of it might have, but some of it could just been on me taking care of myself too. 

0:49:57 - Speaker 1
So, like nowadays, when something happens at once like that, something that would have triggered a really angry response back when you're younger, how do you, how do you find like that train of thought goes through your head now? 

0:50:08 - Speaker 2
It definitely goes through different. I've definitely more relaxed than I used to be and that's where some of that medication stuff it definitely helps too is that slows down those responses a little bit and also just like more coping mechanisms. Like Just I can almost talk myself through situations and so much practice that I can do it pretty quickly and you know, with, especially with people, if I'm on the garage something Bangs my hand, I'm still gonna throw a wrench. I'm not that fast, that yeah, like I could definitely with people and stuff. I'm definitely feel like a more understanding Stuff and I kind of force myself into these situations like inside my head, like something somebody's pissing me off or something I can put myself in there. She was a lot better and try to understand their side a lot better, it's to be for sure. 

0:51:01 - Speaker 1
Since being in therapy too. How did that change the way that you look at any of your past, like look at your, your, your biological father or your mother or even your stepdad I mean some of the issues that they went through. You know you stepped at your stepdad was your dad. Now you know he had his, about what you kind of said with some alcoholism. So obviously, like now as being older, you probably can look at that and say, well, he probably had mental health problems. He cope using alcohol and had to learn how to not cope using alcohol. Like how does that change? Like some of the way you'd look On the past? 

0:51:32 - Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean it definitely changes it. I have my limits, though you know where. I think if you do something bad enough, you can no longer blame it on that. But yeah, for sure, I think there's a lot of stuff, especially with, like my dad top to be with a veteran and stuff like that, and so you can see, like Some of the forces and I don't mean everybody, but like some of them Turn out a lot of people who end up drinking a lot, being Drugs a lot and stuff like that. 

So like I Can understand that, like the stress of going through, you know, service and stuff like that can definitely Do that. So I really can try to put myself in other people's situations. I don't know if that's what I'm like, oh, this is just pure speculation, but yeah, I think it definitely helps understand why some people act the way they do, for sure, especially in the past. But then, yeah, understanding myself to like going back to the situations that. So I ended up being diagnosed with like two episodes of PTSD and I Can definitely look back on those better now after therapy than I could before that, because I don't think I handle at all before that when I think about them I'd be super mad I'd be. Now I can think about it and Go on with my day. You know, put my mind on some, not go through that whole thing again. 

0:53:09 - Speaker 1
Because you've learned how to more emotionally regulate yourself. Yeah, keep yourself in a baseline more often. 

0:53:16 - Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. So yeah, I think I'm just a better human being Not saying I'm winning any awards, but definitely a lot better spot For sure and like how many years have you now been coming to Winner's Edge Four roughly? Okay, three and a half four year. Would you say that that was like? 

0:53:35 - Speaker 1
another big improvement for you when you start working out consistently. 

0:53:39 - Speaker 2
Yes, for sure, and it's. This place Definitely gives you more of a sense of community, but more of a sense of community. So we moved here for four and a half years ago. Just don't know anybody from it all that is right? No, so we lived in Monroe, Wisconsin. Okay for ten years before moving here. So yeah, when we moved out here and just You're no anybody, you know nobody to talk to, nothing like that. 

So where I work and you work at the time, what drive past here every day. And finally one day I just pulled in and Started coming and, yeah, it helps. Physical exertion, I think, helps a lot with mental Issues, I guess you know, you just find a way to work some things out. And then Kirk is so nice don't ever tell anybody I said he was nice, but he would. He, you know, talks to you every day. He's a good friend, he seems to really care that or he's a good at acting like shit, but he, he uh, just having somebody to talk to Helps a lot. And then there's also this community at the gym where you, like, you meet a lot of friends and you've been talking, people hang out, can go grab a beer with somebody or something. I think it definitely helped me a lot because I think I started to feel pretty isolated again after moving and and just like Was like well, what do I do? 

0:55:10 - Speaker 1
now. 

0:55:10 - Speaker 2
You know your work day would end. You're like Someone home now. But you started coming here and I was like, okay, and then we, we do activities too and stuff. 

0:55:21 - Speaker 1
So it was nice for sure Very big things that you think you'd like. Wish you could go back and tell your younger self with some of the things you've learned, the lessons you've learned, the strategies you've learned. 

0:55:33 - Speaker 2
Yes, for sure, the coping stuff and and for sure, like opening myself up to you, know different things and listening to people, because I think my thoughts on therapy when I was younger which is dumb, but it was like, you know, they didn't live what I lived. How are they supposed to know? 

You know how to get through some of this stuff and that was always kind of my thing. I realized later on how stupid that was, like I should have allowed myself to be more open earlier. I really wish I had, because I'd be a lot further along on my I guess mental health journey than I am now if I had Not been so stubborn when I was younger like prior to therapy? 

0:56:18 - Speaker 1
did you feel like there was growth just from say like being married, like getting married and Having like live with somebody every day, where you have to care for somebody else's emotions every day, care about how they felt, not just yourself? Get outside your own head more often? Do you feel like there was like, was there growth for you there? Yeah, for sure, and obviously you kind of looted a lot. To like your wife is Like very positive impact on your life. 

0:56:45 - Speaker 2
Yeah, for sure she was definitely like I Mean I was definitely big Like it did just much for me. A therapy did too was just having somebody to be accountable for and to like Life-changing, because up until then I could just kind of do whatever I wanted, you know, and not Care. And now it was like you, like you were saying, like you had to care about somebody else, you want what's best for them, to not just yourself. So I think that Helps you mature a lot too, because then you got to start planning to kids. Do now on kids you want. 

Where do you want to live or do you want to be in your career? It's not just your career, somebody else too. So you kind of and I started to take myself but more Lightly, I guess, for lack of a better term like I was pretty serious at work and that's I'd start getting mad because they were going my way or I'd say, working late, I don't, like it was all about work, trying to make more money at work and trying to move up at work. And then I realized like what am I doing? 

all that, for like you take more time for yourself and Somebody else to just I Think it just made my work life balance way better to having somebody else around. 

0:58:09 - Speaker 1
And how did that change you with the fact that, like, you had your adopted son right away and then Having your daughter as well, which you know I guess it was enough years later but like, so you kind of even had the responsibility of like a kid right away? Yeah, because I feel like that that could be such a such a jump as well online. I feel like those are like two big jumps right yeah, married and then having a kid. Yeah, I'm like having a mature and like look past yourself more often. 

0:58:36 - Speaker 2
Yeah, it was definitely like it wasn't just like an immediate change. That definitely took some getting used to it and take like a super long time. But it's just you definitely have to adjust because you just don't. I think anytime you become a parent you just you have to Slowly adjust, just because nobody knows what to do right away. You know it's kind of a thing you have to learn as you go. I think could you listen to people's advice, and nobody's advice is ever good Like you always just kind of have to. I don't mean that in general, but you know every kid is their own person, so whatever advice you get always apply and same for as the parent here your own person too. So it wasn't like I could hear all the advice in the world, but that still wasn't gonna prepare me that well for what I had to do. We were both figuring each other out. So it definitely takes some time for sure. 

0:59:35 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, I can imagine Especially that that, the fact that the ship doesn't happen too fast, but you obviously still feel like it, like there is the they immediate feeling like it. Things need to change and you can only change so fast and you're bought. You know you want to have resistance to it because you've lived so many years a certain way. Yeah, and now you have to change the way you live, the way you think about stuff, that you know that that that pie has its own positive impacts, without a doubt, I'm sure, yes, for sure. 

1:00:07 - Speaker 2
It definitely does. I mean, yeah, with kids especially, you do a lot more With kids especially, you do a lot more looking inside yourself and like realizing how your parents were and how you want to be as a parent. And I think you do really change your personality depending on how you're gonna raise your kid be a wild partier and or be a temperamental asshole like me and like then you have kids, you realize, hey, I can't really do that or you have to be a good example, you know. 

1:00:41 - Speaker 1
So it definitely does change and ever since you kind of learned everything through therapy, how do you feel like? Do you feel like you? You try to not push but like give more advice to your son now, as he's kind of in those years of you know he was in his late teens early to now he's early 20s. You know he's probably going through some of the things that you've been through in that period of time in a sense of like what about like boy angst that we get, yeah, young right? Do you feel like you you're able to kind of guide him a little bit better now? 

1:01:11 - Speaker 2
yeah, I try, but I also try to make sure I step back because I do think there was value and means in experiencing some of this stuff kind of on my own, is struggling to that. I do want him. You don't want your kids to struggle, but I do want him to struggle some too. I guess I want him to, okay, have that when he gets older, have that feeling of earning, you know. So I want him to kind of have to face some things on his own, you know, and he's learning that he's definitely going through it like he'll call and ask for some advice. He gives advice and hope that he can figure it out. You know he just had to do his registration and I want stuff like that. I wanted to tell him some, but I also wanted to say maybe try to figure some things out of your owner or find somebody who can help you. So luckily my mom retired so he had her come up into the office to get it all figured out. But he still learned from it, you know. So it's that fine line of like not hovering over him too much. 

I think I'm figure things out on his own, which he kind of is, because learning that a job is not always the you know, consistent and paycheck sometime doesn't come in and stuff like that you know. So he's getting there. I'm proud of him. He's doing a really good job. He's getting it figured out. You know it sucks. I know it sucks for him. We all went through it. You know it's young people, but he's off, I think, learning a lot of it too. So one of those things you hope that. 

1:02:58 - Speaker 1
You just hope they appreciate later yeah, yeah, which you know that he likely will. Yeah, because, at the end of the day, feeling like you're earned the things you learned does feel good yeah, for sure so. 

1:03:11 - Speaker 2
I think he'll get that feeling for sure when he gets a little bit older. You know that whole brain developing until your mid 20s thing is it's pretty true. So yeah, you know it, brain keeps developing. You started getting a little bit better understanding all that, so yeah. 

1:03:32 - Speaker 1
So just kind of like to end things off here what would be your biggest piece of advice you'd give to your younger self? 

1:03:42 - Speaker 2
I think, like before, just be more open. You know and talk. Like being more open by talking people. Talk to your friends. You need help with something you know. Talk to your friends. It definitely gets better. More open you are. Try not to close yourself off. Figure things out on your own like essentially communicating, yeah yeah, I think that definitely helps. 

That was one of the big keys they have in therapy with talking things through more, especially my wife, I think, when I was younger. They probably just talk more with your friend. I think that helps. I think that might be kind of part of the issue that we're facing now, not a lot of personal attack with some younger kid. It was my son had better, more close friends, you know, when he was younger to talk to and stuff probably would have helped him some. I think that's pretty important for sure. 

1:04:40 - Speaker 1
Yeah, I definitely think some of my biggest growth came through just the fact that my wife will sit there and talk to me for hours on end about stuff and like she'll let me talk about things in my mind and help me kind of talk through them, and sometimes she'll just sit there and listen and I'll ask an opinion every once in a while as I'm talking and she'll give me a little opinion. That alone, I mean just being able to open up and communicate things out loud so it's not just rattling around in my brain that I think such a massive 

1:05:09 - Speaker 2
difference maker what are they called ruminating? Ruminating, yes, that was one of the big things I learned with my son through family therapy the word ruminating and how bad it can be so if you got an overactive mind, it probably likes to ruin it all, that's why I'm an insomniac too. So like that's what happens me every night as soon as my head hits that pillow like my head blows up. Yep, so that's. 

1:05:37 - Speaker 1
You try to avoid just picking your head all the time, yeah well, I really appreciate you coming on today and open up a little bit about your story and telling people about you, know your journey that you've been through and some of the growth that you've been through, because I think it's a great story that a lot of people can relate to and a lot of men especially can relate to, because a lot of 20 year old guys are angry and don't realize why they're angry and it takes them a long time to realize that the anger is just a. It's a symptom of mental health problems that are just not being taken care of. Yeah, and I think it's something a lot of guys could really benefit from opening up, talking more and eventually seeking therapy to be able to learn those coping strategies yeah, for sure. 

1:06:20 - Speaker 2
And also, if you get time, what you do, get help from people, make sure to thank them, like show your appreciation of people, for sure, like thank you for talking to me. I also obviously like to thank my friends if I don't thank enough for listening to my bullshit to you, and obviously I always thank my wife for it anyways yeah, no, that's a great, great add-on as well, I think, showing people appreciation when they're there. 

1:06:46 - Speaker 1
It's gonna, it's the reason people will continue to show up to yeah yeah, cuz you regret not doing it when you get the chance. 

1:06:54 - Speaker 2
For sure, for sure cool. I appreciate it well thank you, sir. 

1:06:57 - Speaker 1
Thank you very much. If you guys enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and tune in for more episodes coming up in the near future. So thank you, never break this. 

Transcribed by https://podium.page