From Prison to Powerlifting: The Redemption Journey of Shaun Kopplin

In this episode, I interview my friend Shaun Kopplin, who shares his compelling story of redemption and transformation. We journey through Shaun's tumultuous past, engaging in impactful discussions about his challenging relationship with his stepdad, his rebellious youth, his incarceration, and his eventual journey towards self-acceptance and success.

We uncover the stimulating world of powerlifting and the structure it brought to Shaun's life, offering him a sanctuary from the pressures of his past. Shaun openly discusses his felonies and his struggle with substance abuse, which didn’t deter his spirit. Instead, it fueled his determination to build something of his own, resulting in a successful roofing business and a respected place in the powerlifting community. We delve into the ways this discipline brought Shaun mental solace, a sense of self-worth, and a community that supported and inspired him.

Transcript

0:00:00 - John
Hi and welcome to another episode of Unturned Stones. On today's podcast, I'm going to be interviewing Sean Copeland. This is an interview I've been a little excited for a while to do and wanted to ask you about. Actually, before I started podcast. I'm going to ask you if you'd be interested because I knew you'd be somebody who would be very good to speak to, as you have lived a lot of life, you've had a lot of experiences and I think people would benefit from hearing some of your perspective on life and perspective on things you've been through. So this is what I'm very excited to talk about with you today. So just to kind of start the podcast off, can you guys just do a little introduction about yourself, where you're from, where you grew up, stuff like that. 

0:00:38 - Shaun
Alright, my name is Sean. I go by web now but it was Copeland, which is Copeland is my stepdad's name. I had to go through the courts to get my name switched back to web because I got to do a lot of trouble and I use a lot of aliases when I was younger. So now my name is web or web Copeland they hyphenated it as well. 

But I was born in Milwaukee and my mom didn't want me growing up out here, so we moved to Grafton and I grew up there and then I got into some trouble when I was in Grafton and we moved to Port Washington and I grew up. If anyone's familiar with the area, I grew up in the trailer park when you come into town by like the George webs and the Justice Center and then I'm from there. I was just till I hit my teen years like I was bouncing around from like group homes in my teen years from getting into trouble. But mainly I grew up in the Port Washington area, the Ozaki County area, before moving back out here to Milwaukee. How old are you? I'm 43. 

0:01:53 - John
43, okay, yeah, I was born in 80. Okay, so you got to. It's like you got to live through some of the 80s, through like some of your early younger years. 

0:02:01 - Shaun
Yeah, and you really lived through the 90s, yeah, the 90s, yeah, we're kind of fun. 

0:02:10 - John
So okay, so you have a stepdad, and sorry, I said Copeland, it's Copeland. 

0:02:16 - Shaun
It's actually it's German and it's Copeland, copeland. Okay, but no one ever promises it right. Anyway, I don't even I gave up. You know correcting people, so I don't even care. 

0:02:28 - John
I know sometimes correcting people in your name, just like. 

0:02:31 - Shaun
Or even when I go to Starbucks like the oh, how do you spell your name? It doesn't matter, just throw it out there. 

0:02:37 - John
Just you say it, I'll recognize it, I'm 43 years old. 

0:02:39 - Shaun
I do not care what you address me as anymore. 

0:02:44 - John
So how long has your mom been with your stepdad? Like it's my whole life, okay, okay, so did you know your real dad? 

0:02:53 - Shaun
No, my real dad? He, I don't know any. I've never seen a picture of him. I'd have to search to even find his name. I don't know any of that family. He committed suicide before I was born. According to my mom, he didn't even know that she was pregnant. So I don't know. I've tried to dig into it a little bit, but my ambition always runs slow and I'm just like I don't really give a shit. You know, because what the young turned stone? You know, what are you going to find? Are you going to like what you find. 

Yeah, type shit you know. So it's kind of like maybe when I get enough, maybe when I'm old like I mean older now but like maybe in a couple of years when I like retire or whatever and I have extra time, I can just jump into it and actually figure out my lineage using, like I'm on that ancestrycom thing, so I did the swab and all that, so I can see a lot of the people that I have no clue who the fuck they are through the bloodline. Yeah, maybe I could explore that a little bit more. I just don't have the fucking timer energy right now to do it. I'm too focused on life. 

0:04:03 - John
Now is that like a when you've tried to bring it up with your mom? Has it been a hard conversation for her to have? Yeah, yeah, I'm sure that was. 

0:04:10 - Shaun
You know that's an emotional yeah, it's yeah. Every time I bring it up she's very standoff. So why are you bringing this up again? Well, kind of because it pertains to me in my who the fuck I am. You know what I'm saying. I see a therapist obviously you know, and she's even my therapist is even like like this you just your whole life you just spent trying to figure out who you are. You know where you come from and you've not been able to pinpoint that. So it's kind of your whole life you've been kind of confused. So yeah, makes sense. 

0:04:43 - John
So, then, your stepdad has been around for as long as you've known since you were born. Did you know he was your stepdad when you were young? Yeah, okay, like him told you, yeah, like as soon as you were kind of able to talk and communicate and understand. Yeah. 

0:04:57 - Shaun
And I almost wish that they didn't. You know what I'm saying, because that caused a huge rift between him and I Like the whole. You're not my fucking real dad. Okay, that shit, you know what I'm saying. Like who are you to come and tell me what to do? We're like that. So I had that attitude as a young kid which wasn't good to have to the person that's trying to discipline you. 

0:05:17 - John
So was that like not there at all till you knew and that like that really I knew the whole time, from far as far back as I can remember. 

0:05:24 - Shaun
I always known he was my stepdad. Okay, there was not a moment that I didn't know that he wasn't. Okay, they met my stepdad and my mom met my Nana. She was working at this diner called Riches in Cedarburg and her son, andy, which is my stepdad and my mom, used to go there. That happened, you know, but she was pregnant with me when they met, so they started dating after that. You know, like so he's been around my whole life. You know, like, now that I'm older and more mature about the situation, like, that's my father. You know, like so you're like I'm dad. Oh, yeah, okay, I have. Since I was a kid though, too. Yeah, you know, they just sat me down like, hey, he's not your real dad, and I'm like okay, what does that mean? You know what I'm saying. Like you're young, you don't really fucking get it at that point, but you know, as you grow up, you're like oh, yeah, you're not my dad. You can't tell me what to do. 

0:06:29 - John
So then you see, you guys kind of had like a little bit of a fractured relationship when you were younger and you're kind of going through your rebellious teenage years. 

0:06:36 - Shaun
Yeah, so your rebellious years started young. Young because I got locked up when I was 17 and that's when my actual like I had to grow up. You know I was a maximum security president, 17 years old, so you know you grow up quick yeah. So after that, his and my relationship, we got pretty close, which I don't think you view as a good or a bad thing. You know, having had that happen, to make that happen, I guess, is a good thing, but there could have been another way. 

0:07:11 - John
Yeah, yeah you know what I'm saying. So learning through fire is not always the best way, but it is. 

0:07:17 - Shaun
It is a way yeah, it's a way to learn fast. Yeah, but my teenage years like, yes, I was a hellion towards him, well, and my mom? Actually, I was just, I didn't want to hear anything, I just want to do my way. It's not kind of the way I am now to like it's either my way. I don't do it, but I'm 43 years old now, so I can do that. 

0:07:42 - John
So how was your relationship with your mom In those younger years? 

0:07:46 - Shaun
at least Good, more so than my dad. You know she babyed the fuck out of me because I was her only kid at the time. My brother didn't come into the picture until I was 12. So those first 12 years, like I was her, I'm still her baby, obviously, you know, the first kid or whatever. But her and my relationship, I mean it's good. I don't like the fact that, like I don't know, she won't talk about my real dad. But what can you do? She don't want to talk about it. She don't want to talk about it. It's our subject. You're going to force her to do the shit, you know. 

0:08:23 - John
Yeah, I mean, especially when what happened with him, that's obviously very hard for her to get, suicide obviously ends up being like almost a taboo subject to talk about. 

0:08:33 - Shaun
It really is, which it shouldn't be, because you don't want people doing it, so you should talk about it more often, right yeah? 

0:08:40 - John
And there's this like lyric in a song. It might be a Mack Moore song where he's like you know, your memory lives like. Your memory lives on as long as somebody's still saying your name and talking about you, right? 

0:08:49 - Shaun
Yeah, you don't talk about it. It's not there anymore. Yeah. 

0:08:53 - John
So your mom did she like play less of that disciplinarian role, while your stepdad did, you know you rebelled against him real hard because he wanted to be a disciplinarian with you. But like was your mom like not as much of a disciplinarian and she kind of she wanted to baby you. He wanted to try to, you know, be a real father figure and, like you know, not force you into anything but, like you know, beat. 

0:09:15 - Shaun
I think he acquired that role more than she did. She would try, but I probably wouldn't listen and he would step in like hey, you got to do this. And I'm just like who the fuck are you? You know? Cause we didn't live together until I was like seven or eight. So I lived with my one of my uncles and my other uncle would pop in and out, my mom and my grandma all in like a two bedroom little apartment or whatever, and so my uncle really watched me most of the time on my grandma or I was just getting pwned on. I thought whoever you know which mom's working or grandma's working, my uncle's working, so it was just like a juggling situation. I don't remember Andy, my stepdad, actually watching me too often then, probably why I was so rebellious towards him because he'd just come around and tell me what to do and like I ain't trying to hear this shit. 

0:10:10 - John
So did you kind of have that with your uncle's as well, like they would try to tell you what to do? No, because they were always there. 

0:10:14 - Shaun
Okay, you know what I'm saying. Like they, they lived there. So I'm like, you're kind of like the man of the house, like, and plus I looked up to one of them. The other one was just an abusive fucking asshole, but it is what it is. 

0:10:28 - John
Do you feel like there's anything in your younger years that then kind of forced you more into like the rebellious side, you know, not just being rebellious against your stepdad, but just in general? Yeah, Like did that. Do you feel like there was like angst that built up from something specifically or more generally? 

0:10:45 - Shaun
Well, my uncle's kicking the shit out of me. That probably didn't fucking help. 

0:10:49 - John
Okay, okay. 

0:10:51 - Shaun
So it's just a good amount of abuse. 

0:10:55 - John
Like back then, what like is this abuse that you would say? Like back then you kind of you looked at it as normal. Like, looking back now you're like fuck, they just they kind of just ragged on me that part. 

0:11:05 - Shaun
Okay, yeah, yeah, for no reason, like just getting smacked upside the head or thrown against the wall and hit. It's just. I don't know whatever they're going on in their fucking life. Not so much my uncle Ray. My uncle Ray was really nice, he was my uncle Jim. He was a piece of shit. Okay, yeah, because he like he now that like he got fucked up pretty bad. He's got a bro. I'm not going to get into the details of why it happened, but he has a broken back right and he's been walking with a limp and fucked up and on pain pills his whole entire life now Well, the last 25, 30 years of his life. You know what I'm saying. So he crossed somebody that he probably shouldn't have crossed. He got what was coming to him. He could say karma. He was a pretty good teacher. 

0:11:58 - John
Yeah, karma always gets us in the end some somewhere or another. So then kind of in your later teenage years you can. You can speak about as much as you want, like what happened to get you to the point that you got enough trouble that you got locked up at 17?. 

0:12:15 - Shaun
I was in and out of detention centers and group homes. I went to school and was part of the group home on. It used to be on North Avenue, where St Mary's is now. They demolished it. It was called Santa Millions Lakeside. It was like school for boys, okay, and now they're. Now I don't think it's a school for boys, I think it's like a just like a halfway house thing. It's on like I want to say 90 seconds in capital. It's fucking huge. It's a big place. It's still called St A's. I see it every time I drive by it. 

But when I was I was 13 when I first went to jail I was breaking in and burglarizing, robberies and I got caught or whatever went to jail. I had to do nothing but give me probation. I was 13 years old. A couple more of those things, more destruction of properties and burglaries and just breaking into places, just seeing what I could get into you know what I'm saying and breaking shit. You know I had a lot of anger in me so I just expressed it. However I could, even with sports, like I was always in sports. I was pretty, pretty athletic. So I would Like with hockey or football or soccer, like I chose sports that I could hit things, be aggressive, so and I just didn't really turn that off. When I Didn't turn we got done with the game or whatever. You know what I'm saying. So you know, out of school I was getting into fights and stuff like that Just had an attitude. I guess you could say and I couldn't really tell probably a lot had to do with, like my upbringing, obviously with the abuse and um. 

0:14:06 - John
Would you say there was any influence from, like, any kids. So you know what, like what kind of got you started into, like at 13, breaking and tearing stuff like that. Was there an influence from somebody else that kind of got you down that route? Or like this was another way for you to take out your anger. 

0:14:22 - Shaun
No, I don't think there's Influenced like, influenced by like somebody saying, hey, let's go do this. 

0:14:28 - John
Yeah, like well, there's like A group of kids you kind of know, okay, nothing like that, more of an influence of Self-worth. 

0:14:37 - Shaun
Okay, a group in a trailer home we don't have money, you know. And, being in Ozaki County, everyone around you like they got me out this pretty wealthy area. You know what I'm saying. So you look at some of the kids around you and you're just like, well, you got a dad, you got this, you got I have none of this Shit. You know, I'm saying you like, even like the Nintendo game systems, like I didn't get that, like around me had that shit. 

So he is build up like I'm a piece of shit, my family ain't shit type type mentality, like if I don't do something about it, I'll never have shit like this. See you steal things, break into places, see what you get into. You know what I'm saying. This more self-worth than than it was. People said push me like, hey, go, do that. I was never really a send-off like. 

You know what I'm saying and I kind of I don't want to say I'm a loner. I have a lot of people that I associate with and I have a lot of really good friends, but I've created a network around myself and I guess you could say that I did that when I was younger, subconsciously, but I Tend to like I don't really reach out to people like, hey, you want to go do this, you want to go do that. It's nice, someone reaches out to me first. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, so I guess you can say I'm a loner or A real recluse a little bit. 

I'll sit in my house all fucking day long and watch movies, if I can, or Drive around by myself, like I will have a lot of old-school cars, I'll just hop in by myself. I won't even hit no one else. I am in traffic. I just go by myself, like I don't need somebody there with me, like a lot of people do I. Technically I don't even want people around me. I'm not kind of a, I like being by myself. You know what I'm saying. So that back then I was very much that person as well, but I didn't know it you know what? 

I'm saying, and I'm pretty sure that the anger would be more expressed by myself than it would be somebody else, and I'm not good, because if I show that to somebody else nice, you know, see who I really am type shit, like I don't want to be around that guy he's fucking crazy Into. Like later on in my life, like now, I just don't care who thinks what. Obviously we've been friends for a long time. 

0:16:56 - John
Oh, so yeah, you know that part of me, yeah sure, I think there's a lot of power and being okay with being by yourself, yeah, you know, and there can be like a little loner part to it, but at the end of the day, I mean. 

0:17:11 - Shaun
I only use that word because I don't know, like, like, what kind of word I could use. I mean loner. I mean, yeah, I'm not alone. I don't feel lonely. You know what I'm saying. So it's, but like I'm alone in the sense of nobody is around me. 

0:17:23 - John
Yeah, well, I think some people have a very hard time, you know, being in a room by themselves and not having not having some kind of like social interaction, not having somebody else kind of filled the void yeah, where it's good to like learn how to fill that void yourself. I mean, I'm sure that skill came in handy a lot when you're locked up because, yeah, you have to spend so much isolated time. Yeah, so for you at sports, like what ages you start getting into sports? 

0:17:46 - Shaun
I was young, probably like four, my, my mom put me into soccer or something like that. One of those, I Think it was soccer. Yeah, I had to be soccer cuz I didn't get into hockey till I was seven. And that's when because my, my, my stepdad's family, his, his nephews, played hockey, so they're they're just looking for things that like, keep me busy. That wasn't, you know like video game type related or you know other shit like. 

And once they say that's pretty good at soccer, they go put him in this sport, put in this, or. You know, we didn't have the really the money to do it at the time, so we just my uncles, gave us all the old gear from my, my cousins they're technically my cousins, my dad's nephews, my cousins, um, so I got all their hand me down, shit, which was and I loved the game I love. I love hockey is my favorite sport. I still watch the shit today. Like I want to go to more games. But with that said, I Like they put me on the ice and I just I fell in love with it. I just went with it Until what ages you play I got locked up in our 17. 

0:18:58 - John
Okay, so you're still very active in it until that point yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. 

0:19:02 - Shaun
I always came back to that. That was like the safe space. 

0:19:06 - John
And I know I've I know you've mentioned before you you, you're pretty good and had yeah potential future in it. Yeah, it had not been derailed by being locked up and have an opportunity to possibly go further with it. Yeah, so was that hard for you to have to be pulled away from that at the time? 

0:19:20 - Shaun
I was. I was locked up so it was kind of like I couldn't do nothing about it. Anyway, yeah, but when I got out, like obviously my Scholarships were gone and all that shit because I did, I did had scouts looking at me and blah, blah piles of fucking Mail, like when you used to get mail Like my whole, my whole parents table would be filled with like letters from schools you know, like around the fucking country, even Canada, like oh, we want your son to come play here, come, like I got her school, you know types it. So, yeah, it was a hard pill to swallow once. 

Once I realized the gravity of what I fucking did like well, fuck, now I'm screwed, I know it. I mean I could go to a community college or something like that, but the education's gone, financial future of playing the game that I love is gone, and I gotta kind of get a good gut of this taste in my mouth over the whole situation. So I never even went back to playing the game. Okay, I'll put a lace on my skates and I'll go scan on the oval, but that's about as far. Oh no, I'll go on like like Red Arrow Park or an outside pond or something like that, just because it's fun, you know, but I don't pick a stick anymore. Yeah, I have people in the bar leagues. They're like, oh, grab a stick, get back on the ice. I'm like, oh good man, it's also so big now, like not very mobile anymore. When I played hockey was 150 pounds, like I'm trying to get to 250 right now. 

0:20:50 - John
When I like, in hindsight, do you like look back and see? But do you, do you remember, like, what's the reason that you're you're? You had this thing that you're very good at, you have potential for in the future, and do you think that, like, was there any specific reasons that you you didn't kind of just focus on that only and kind of just Look at that, what's it? Just that you're kind of so forth. So it was again. 

0:21:13 - Shaun
goes back to a self-worth, Okay because, like I said, being in the area I was at at the time, I Everyone out, everyone had money. You know we stress yeah, no fucking money. I'm still living in a trailer home with my parents. You know what I'm saying. So like I Resorted to selling drugs or robbing people or this and that you know, it's just. It all comes back to that, all comes back to self-worth for me, um, how I felt about myself, who I was, and I guess, like, as my therapist said, be trying to figure out who I am as it. You know, it all comes from that, I mean, in the end, right. So, and obviously back then you don't really realize it when you're going through it Because you're so deep in it and, honestly, if I did realize it, I don't think I would have stopped doing what I was doing. 

0:22:07 - John
You still better. 

0:22:08 - Shaun
Yeah, but at my minute, you know, just stop for no reason. 

0:22:13 - John
So in hindsight you now can look back and you see the self-worth part of it. Yeah, back then you probably didn't see it as much. So then were you aware that like this was kind of all like related to mental health and how not at all had no clue, just kind of don't get me wrong. 

0:22:29 - Shaun
Um I, I Was in and out of Psychwards, mental hospitals or whatever. My those schools put me in them, my parents put me in them. 

0:22:44 - John
Just probably got tagged as a troubled youth. 

0:22:46 - Shaun
Yeah yeah, I was one of the first kids to go on like Zoloft, like weird shit, like that. They put me on ambient. I was like I was young too, like 10, 12. How did that affect you? It fucked me up like it really fucked me up. My my mom wishes you never did it. But you know you got all these doctors like, oh, this is the drug, the dude. You know it's the same way that they did with the fucking Percocets and the oxycontins. Oh, this is the drug of the future. You know they don't give a fuck about us, they just throw medication at it. Oh, this costs so much money. We can really fucking milk these people for this. Now look, the whole goddamn world thinks they're depressed and this and math. They're always buying, going to the fucking doctors and getting Zoloft and whatever other bullshit Anti psych meds they can put us on. And how much money does it cost? You know it's. 

0:23:41 - John
Back in line, yeah all the money? 

0:23:44 - Shaun
Yeah, supposed to be on. Why don't we just fix the problem with talking to the fucking people? You know what I'm saying. Like, like this, this will do more benefit than putting someone on fucking drugs. 

0:23:55 - John
Yeah, you know what I'm saying. I mean you grew up there in the 90s, 80s, where this shit was just not talked about. 

0:24:02 - Shaun
No, you know, yeah, especially a man. A man is supposed to talk. Well, you know you're supposed to be fucking tough. Talk about your feelings. What are you? A pussy? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's I don't even, don't even show that you're hurt and you know you get punched in the face. Suck it up. 

0:24:18 - John
There's a pill that can give you and it's gonna make you, yeah, feel better or look like you feel better than others. 

0:24:23 - Shaun
That's really what it is. Put this mask on. You look good. 

0:24:26 - John
No yeah, that's a. That's another great way of putting it. It's just a mask, it's a mask, the mask the things that you're going through, that you're done not. 

0:24:35 - Shaun
Yeah, yeah, cuz I've been in charter hospital Northbrook Hospital, same Michael's, probably Another one there somewhere and like for like weeks at a time. You know I'm saying I'm putting the fucking padded room before cuz I didn't want to take my medication. You know they fucking hold you down to force you to take it. 

0:24:57 - John
And I'm sure that's like for you, being somebody who and being a child. 

0:25:00 - Shaun
That's pretty fucking traumatizing. 

0:25:03 - John
And you despise authority and you have people forcing you to do something which I'm sure just made you like kick that much further back Against authority and as soon as you know like you probably want to escape authority so badly, I'm oh so 17 year old Sean gets the sentence that he's going to prison. Do you remember what that was like, with that feeling would like that. It was kind of relief. 

0:25:28 - Shaun
Okay, cuz I didn't know what was going on In the moment. It was relief like, oh fuck, I start my next journey. I guess you could say Everything up to it was anxiety, written and fucking like. My mind was a catastrophe of 17 years old and I was facing 110 years in prison. Wow yeah. Luckily it was Three delivery of controlled substances While I was on bail for an armed robbery, so that carried another three bail, jumping charges. And then it was like a recklessly endangering safety and holding someone without their will or whatever. I don't even know the fucking charges or whatever, but that was a case with my brother and he beat the polygraph test. So we beat the case, thank God. 

Otherwise that this would have been longer. They carried that sentence alone carried like 50 some years, wow, yeah for a robbery alone, our robbery alone was like 40 years. 

And then like the recklessly endangering safety and blah, blah, blah. So we involved it was, it was a with a gun and and we did that. Yeah, we didn't, we didn't do that, but we got that charge. But he beat the polygraph and all we, all we did. All we have to do is just keep our mouth shut, let it right out. He beat the polygraph, dropped my case. My first plea bargain was was a 20 years. Like that's not a bargain. Wow, fuck you talking about 20 years. I'm not pleading guilty. Like fight those, take it, don't take it. The trial. And before trial they're like we're gonna give you one last offer, and that was the the week that my brother beat the Polygraph. We're gonna give you one last off. They offered me a probation for it. I'm not even taking that. So they just dropped it. Oh, my god, just wrote it out. One, that case, I guess you could say. But then they hit me on the other shit because I beat that case. Well, they know I did it, yeah. 

0:27:43 - John
So how long were you locked up for them? 

0:27:45 - Shaun
that time was only two years. Two years, yeah. I went to boot camp and I got out, got out early for boot camp. 

0:27:50 - John
Okay. 

0:27:51 - Shaun
Yeah, then I was still on probation. 

0:27:55 - John
How would you, how was that experience? Cuz like, obviously now you, you go from being Somebody who already had issues with authority, had already had issues, would not wanting to be told what to do, wanting to be independent. Now you're like, you feel like you probably don't have much controller in that time. You have zero control. Yeah, you've told what to do, where to go, what to wear, what to eat. Was that like a very hard transition or did you kind of just accept it because there was no other choice period? 

0:28:22 - Shaun
I I can accept things pretty quickly and just move on and be like well, this is life. Now you know just just how you maneuver and how you deal with it, and I think but that comes back to like being a man and being strong enough showing emotion. You know I'm saying like in those situations that part of me kicks in and it's good, I'm straight, which helps. You know, when you're put into that position, like you're locked down 23 hours a day, you get out for a shower and to eat and that's fucking it, and you only get the shower every third day of the week. You know what I'm saying. So you're in your cell, you know, you shit. 

Right like after you get out of the county jail and you go to Dodge 23 and one until you get staffed and you go to the whatever, whatever joint that they select for you. You know what I'm saying. And even then, if you you have a crime that considers you maximum security, you're 23 and one again, so you just locked up. The whole fucking does like being. I mean, you get a TV and all that shit Once you get to your destination, but when you're in Dodge, it's like being in the hole, like there's, there's nothing there. You got a celly and that's it. You can order a deck of cards, but you get no TV, no fucking radio, none of that shit. So it might be different now because everything's through an iPad, like emails instead of letters, visits are through TVs. But back then it was different, back in the 90s and early 2000s. 

0:29:50 - John
So obviously, like we kind of talked about a little earlier, how like you're ready, you're fine being isolated, you're fine being by yourself, so I'm sure that that skill came in handy. Yes, during that time for you were 100% not all of a sudden you went from a social person I'm an extrovert and now I have to be an introvert by myself. So did that time change you? Do you feel like there was any like significant change mentally for you there, in that like I'm sure you probably went through some level of growing up and maturing because, yeah, well, I was so young? 

0:30:20 - Shaun
Yeah, that time? I don't think so, because that time I only spent three months at Dodge. Then I went to Jackson for like a week and then from Jackson I went straight to boot camp and was that boot camp for ten and a half months. That shit changed me. That taught me a lot. But, as in like the prison, teaching me anything and teach me shit, there's, it's easy, like literally it's a cakewalk. They don't want to hear you say that, but it is. You know. You get a TV, you get a radio. You can write Letters all day long, talking the phone all day long, go to rec all day long, play cards, do whatever the fuck you want. You got free food, just cake. You got nothing to worry about. What do you got to worry about playing cards, call, calling someone and talking to them. You know what I'm saying. So, realistically, you know, like, what are you missing out here? The freedom to walk around or buy stuff, like you know. Yeah, you don't get pussy in there, but it's about the only things yeah, like otherwise they. 

0:31:33 - John
You have enough little freedoms. 

0:31:35 - Shaun
Yeah, that while you're and that's the thing you have to tell yourself while you're in there too, like this is fine, I can do this. You know what I'm saying. You know, because if you think anything else like it's gonna suck, you just make the best of it. You know what I'm saying yeah and in reality it's just we even say it when you're in there the whole a nothing but a different part of the jail, or the jail a nothing but a different part of the world. Yeah you're still living in it. 

0:31:59 - John
So, and you've kind of already had this survival instinct in you that like just move forward, but the next step put the next foot in front of the other. 

0:32:06 - Shaun
Yeah, it's just something you have to tell yourself, because if you don't, you're gonna go crazy. You don't want to be that guy. 

0:32:14 - John
Do you feel like during that period you did any reflecting on the years prior? 

0:32:18 - Shaun
Oh yeah, okay, yeah, cuz I was, let's, coming off of drugs too. So I did a lot of drugs my youth. So getting out of that haze and actually realizing the gravity of what my life has become even though I went right back to it afterwards, it was kind of a realization and it sucked. I think the most part that sucked about it was just like, for me, I don't if it was consequences, it's whatever. My actions are in my family, so that seeing them hurt sucks. You know what I'm saying. 

Me personally, I don't care. What the fuck do I care for, like I said, it's just another part of the world, but I didn't like hurting them. Yeah, I threw my future away, but I can create a new one, so it's a survival thing, like I could. I feel like you can change and manifest things through your mentality. You know, if I want to be a millionaire, I'm gonna be a millionaire. Yeah, type shit. You know it's just gonna happen, no matter. No matter what I do I played hockey, or if I own a few businesses, like I do now, or whatever the fuck I gotta do I'm gonna make it happen, yeah. 

0:33:48 - John
So what were those the years following that? Like 19, you got out yeah. 

0:33:56 - Shaun
I got out right before us turning 20. I went in right when I turned 17. So it was like about two years I was in and I got out. I graduated from bootcamp, which is a six month program. I was just 10 and a half months there. What is bootcamp? It's called CIP. I forget what the CIP for bootcamp stands for, but there's CIP in the prison system, which is a program, and then there's CIP for bootcamp. The CIP for the prison system is called a cognitive intervention program. Okay, for bootcamp it's called criminal something, something program. You ask after that or during that After that. 

But yeah, I was there for two years. I was in the bootcamp for 10 and a half months and I graduated. 

0:35:01 - John
So is that like actual, like classes and, oh yeah, like your learning education? 

0:35:06 - Shaun
Well, the moment you get there, they treat you like you're going into the military. You have real sergeants from that, retired from the military, like the Marines that they treat you and train you like you're in the military. It's the moment you get there, it's basic training. Huh, from the first week it's basic training, shaver head. They teach you how to fucking march. They teach you how to stand at whatever it is. I don't even know any of it anymore. 

It's 20 years ago. You know you're going to fold the flag properly, carry the flag, march with the flag, call cadence, shit like that. They teach you all of that because each and if you break any of that, your ass is grass. You're doing PT until you puke. So they treat everything and everything is military and discipline based, which I loved it. Honestly, it was fucking it like all worry and thought process out of my fucking day. You were just that, that. You just this. You're. You're a machine every fucking day. Structure and routine. Yes, it's the same. Eric, you woke up, you went to the they call it the head. Go to the head, brush your teeth, get your fucking gear, stand at the edge of your rack and get told what to do when you're ready. Go go here, go there, go. You don't have to just go through the motions. It was the easiest time. Time fly by. Like 10 and a half months was gone like oh shit, it was done. It's way better than sitting in the joint. 

0:36:57 - John
I can definitely see that structure and routine, I think, is like innately needed by our brains. Men especially, I think we really like, desire, structure and routines. It's why we end up like we like sports we have, we like having coaches and they practice and you do this, you do this the game day. 

It's you're gonna do the exact same. As you know it's structure and routine. There's something to be said about it, definitely. Unfortunately, I do think a lot of people out there almost like need some hard, like they need somebody to be yelling at them to do it. Some people can kind of develop that discipline over time themselves, but it's a lot of times situation has to happen for us to like realize oh man, like the older you get, the more you realize, like how much structure and routine like feeds into like a healthy brain. Past that time. What, yeah, what, what kind of happened would life after that? 

0:37:46 - Shaun
I got out, I tried to actually join the military. Oh, okay, because I'm like, well, fuck, I just got out of boot camp. That shit was awesome. I'm like I can do this, like I could just slide right in and you know, and I'm gonna do well, and but they wouldn't take me because all my felonies, they're like well, if you get a couple of them expunge. And she's like well, allow you in with two felonies. 

0:38:11 - John
He's like she got one, five too many, yeah, and. 

0:38:15 - Shaun
I had a buddy that was a lieutenant, try to get me into and they're like, yeah, it's not gonna work, all right, that's fine. So I just I, uh, what did I do? I tried to play hockey a little bit, I think yeah, I did like old man's league. I went I've skated a couple times but it was, wasn't the same, so just gave up on it. Um, I did a lot of like, uh, like, uh, went to the YMCA. I talked to a few schools kind of did like community work. You know what I'm saying. 

And at the time I was, I was working at a like a factory, just just get money. You know what I'm saying. And my buddy got me a really good job. So back then I was nowadays it's nothing, but back then I was like I was getting like 12, 50 an hour. That's pretty fucking good. Yeah, that's like 25 dollars an hour right now 25, 30, you know. 

And that was starting, you know. So I was like, oh, yeah, that's a good job, I'm good and full benefits and all that shit, you know, got my license and blah, blah, blah, because I didn't have that back then. Um, got all my shit together, basically, um, and obviously it just wasn't good enough. So I just fell back into my Sam routine, uh, got back into drugs drinking. I actually got into the drinking because I'm not going to do drugs anymore. So I started started drinking, you know, and uh, one thing leads to another and you just start doing all the other bullshit again. So kind of just spiraled from there for a few years would you say, like where did drugs in the drinking? 

0:39:55 - John
like where a form of escape for you? 

0:39:58 - Shaun
yeah, okay, probably, yeah, from when I was younger, probably it's like it made you feel better. Yeah, snorkeling a cocaine, you feel great, you know, yeah, you're on top of the world, exactly, you know, eat us, eat some mushrooms, fucking. You're completely escaped reality. This is awesome. I got to deal with nothing for the next six hours. Um, I never, I mean, I did smoke weed, but I never. I don't even smoke weed. Now I, I could. I just don't like it. I don't like the way it makes me feel like a lethargic and I'll get shit done. So I, I didn't even smoke weed back then. Um, I like stimulants. 

So I got heavily into cocaine drinking and cocaine and at that time, like, I only worked at the foundry or the, not the foundry, the, uh, whatever that is, the factory for a little bit. Then I went to drink and I love to do drugs, so it probably wasn't the best option for me, but I was. I had, I miss make it 20 bucks an hour. You know, like I said back then, that's a lot of money. Yeah, so I was doing that and I had a company vehicle, company cell phone. I was, uh, what do you call it? A foreman. So like, I thought life was pretty good at the time, you know, but I always had that chip on my and I wasn't playing sports anymore or in the gym at all, so I was one of the. I was getting into fights, always fighting, so that's what brought me back to prison again. 

0:41:45 - John
I was fighting so probably at that point you it's like you're still kind of were you starting to become more aware like the self-worth part of it, of like no, no, okay, I was doing too many drugs. 

0:41:56 - Shaun
Okay, like every day I would be snort cocaine, like every day I would drink and do coke, because I just came with like like just being a construction kind of like it was. Like the whole fucking thing was just like. You know, is it kind of like that, like work hard, play hard, yeah, you know, and this was like the early 2000s, like 2001, you know. Um, I just didn't really care about much, just get high, get drunk, go to work, you know whatever it was that kind of routine it was just like the routine of being a fucking construction, like any construction site. 

I went on. It was just a bunch of guys, just all. I'm gonna go get a little bar tonight and get fucked up, maybe snort some lines, bang some hoes, like that's what it was, you know so was that kind of like, uh, because you're kind of like got into the club scene a little bit clubs, yeah, um, a little bit more. 

So after I got to prison this last time, okay, okay, yeah, that back then I would go every now and then, but it just wasn't my scene. I didn't. I didn't like the people that much that went to the clubs. I like more of like, uh, like a like a bar scene. You know, somewhere I could play pool or sit on a bar stool, talk shit. You know the clubs were. I mean, they were fun. It was just too designery for me at the time, even though I dressed really nice. I just I didn't like the people. The people just pissed me off like they're all fake. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. So, for sure, like you guys are wack, I want to be around you so how old were you when you got locked up to second time? 

0:43:46 - John
26, 26, okay, um, now did you feel like, like, were the years leading up to that little bit better? Getting out of prison when you were 19, turning 20, yeah, you kind of fell right back and, like both old habits, eventually did things kind of like over time, progressing it worse till you got to the point where you were, you know, you had an incident happened and you got locked up at 26 yeah, I mean, it was kind of just like this okay, they didn't really get worse or get better, and then it got bad to where it was just that bad consistently there. 

0:44:29 - Shaun
Was it worse or lower? Like there was. No, it was just for like three, four years was just the same fucking routine. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, get into a fight here in there, do drugs all day and nights, fucking drink all day and night, whatever, just unhealthy behavior. That's when I got into the, the bar, fight or whatever. 

And that's well, I was still on probation, so I was obviously just my peel was smooth, never pissed at me or nothing like how, because I was doing so good on paper, like, oh, you got this job, you're doing this, you got your own place, this, and that you, you know what I'm saying. They look at that, they don't. You know I passed a bunch of piss tests anyway. So they're like oh yeah, we'll, every three months you'll come here and and every three months after that I'll come to your house. So, like I didn't see him often, they gave me enough rope to hang myself. 

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, had he drug tested me, I probably would have been in and out, you know, but he never drug tested me, so I'm just smooth sailing, you know. I'm saying like, and I had two years left of probation before I caught the next case and he was, I was actually supposed to. They were going to like, oh yeah, we're good, you know. And then I caught the case, but it was yeah, it was just a kind of level, get blur for three years. 

0:45:57 - John
Honestly, it was a sandbull shit every fucking day you felt like you're kind of stuck in a cycle yeah, okay, like a cycle of addiction. Yeah, that's all it was so now, if I remember correctly I think it's it was a bar fight that you got into that. Ultimately, that's what got you locked back up. 

0:46:18 - Shaun
Yeah, okay because, um, well, I was always getting into the bar fights, I didn't really think nothing of it. But this one dude, I beat the shit out of him, like months earlier to this, well, he was having a party at this local bar that I always went to and uh, and I'm like in my mind, I'm like I'm gonna let him, like I'm still going to my bar, the fuck you talking about this is my and uh. So I went there and he threw a beer in my girl's face. Yeah and uh, she comes up to me, she comes up to me, that motherfucker, this and that. So he and him and three of his guys, like walked towards me. So I grab a bottle, I smash him in his face with it, drop him and I beat the shit out of his other two boys. 

Had I not hit him with the bottle, I went to jail because they were approaching me. But in Wisconsin we have a same force law, not a self-defense law, so I can only use the same force that they're using against me. So if I would have punched him, we would have gotten into a fight, it would have been fine, but I used the bottle. So now it's substantial battery, it's a felony. Yeah, because I used a weapon, because they didn't have a weapon. If they were coming at me with a bottle or if any type of weapon or something that we're going to use as a weapon, then we were on even playing field. You know, then it's kind of like a wash, you know what I'm saying, but it wasn't that way. So and I was on probation so and from my case, back then I had 27 years withheld, so that was for the three deliveries or whatever it was, and some bail jumpings and blah, blah, blah, and they gave me three, three and three plus one year for the battery. Just ran it all together so it was four years. 

0:48:19 - John
Okay, yeah, so were you worried that they were going to lock you up for longer? 

0:48:22 - Shaun
Yeah, it should have been like 10. Okay, yeah, I was worried that finesse the shit out of it. 

0:48:27 - John
So yeah, yeah, because I was going to say, you know, with the history too, I'm sure. 

0:48:31 - Shaun
Yeah, it didn't help. 

0:48:32 - John
I judged I was going to be inclined to want to go harsher on you. Yeah, okay. So how was that for your stint compared to the first, now that you're older? 

0:48:43 - Shaun
It was a little bit more harder to swallow because I couldn't go to boot camp. They had no early release program at the time for me because I had a violent case, so I had to do the whole bid which, because I was under old law the three, the four years. I only did three off the four because I got the old law. I got to see the parole board so I got a year knocked off because I didn't get any tickets or any trouble while I was inside. So I did those and I got paroled off of that. So I did two out of those three years. And then I had the other extra year to do for the battery. Under the new law you got to do day for day for that. There's no being that. But so that was a straight three years. That sucked because of, like the last year a little bit less, probably like 300 or so days I did in the whole Shit Okay. 

So I was going to, I was in work release. So I got to the point where I finished my program. I got to work release and I was bringing back tobacco. I had a cell phone, creatine because I was working out shit like that and like porn mags, because you have porn mags in there. So I sell the tobacco pouring fucking creatine, shit like that, like a fucking cigarette you get $2 for. 

Okay, you know what I'm saying. So I'd buy a pound of tobacco and just sell the total pound. I'd buy the pound at the back for like 10 bucks, so the whole pound, or $40 cash. You know what I'm saying? So shit like that. So I got caught with all that coming back and they gave me a 360, what's? Eight days adjustment segregation where you don't get nothing. And then after those eight days you start your 360, which is you get to go out for a wreck one hour a day, which they didn't let you out. And then you get an order canteen. You can order a deck of cards, a pad of paper and a pencil and envelopes and hygiene shit. 

0:50:55 - John
Otherwise you're gonna sell by yourself all day. You don't get out Every day. 

0:50:58 - Shaun
You don't get out, man. I luckily have, like psoriasis, suborbitalitis, so I got out every day for a shower. 

0:51:09 - John
Okay. 

0:51:10 - Shaun
That was the only time I got out, otherwise you only get a shower once every third day. 

0:51:15 - John
So you didn't really get any social interaction at all then. 

0:51:19 - Shaun
Not really. No. Sometimes you get a selly Okay, if they're over, like populated, like if someone gets in trouble, they'll put you in there until they find somewhere else to put them. Other than that, now you in there the whole time. You don't get no TV, no nothing. No radios, no nothing. And if you yell out the chuck hole to talk to somebody else, they yell at you and might add more days to your time. Type shit. 

0:51:45 - John
So how was the reflection for you at that point? 

0:51:47 - Shaun
That shit sucks. Yeah yeah, I mean that's the first month sucked. After that you just deal with it. Like the first couple weeks to a month it's like fuck, this is wack. I don't like this shit at all. But after a while you just routine, you just fall into it like all right, I'm good, I wake up. Maybe I'll just lay here. Who cares, it doesn't matter. I don't think I'm gonna sing anyway. 

0:52:14 - John
So how did you learn to make that time pass? I don't know, honestly, because I mean that's especially in our day and age. Now we're like so many people can't even imagine going two hours about picking up their phone, or an hour without picking up their phone, without some kind of constant simulation, but like the thought of sitting, you just talk to yourself. But for how long and how many days in a row do you talk to yourself? For? 

0:52:40 - Shaun
I don't even know what the hell you say to yourself the whole time? 

0:52:43 - John
Yeah, so like with talking to yourself, do you feel like that would be like positive talk at that point, or was that very negative talk? Was that just anything, anything? 

0:52:52 - Shaun
Yeah, you get a book. Usually you read Okay, yeah, you can like they come around with like a card on, like you've seen the movies, like the cart with the books. Yeah, so they come around with the fucking cart with the books. 

0:53:07 - John
See, you get to base something Like what do you got on the cart? 

0:53:08 - Shaun
today, boss, don't look like nothing. Good Like, all right, give me whatever, just real read anything. At that point it's like page is missing, it doesn't fucking matter. 

0:53:18 - John
It's just something for your brain. 

0:53:20 - Shaun
Something, so you don't go stir crazy. 

0:53:22 - John
Yeah, yeah, and you said you were kind of starting to work out during this bid, like you did a lot more, oh yeah. 

0:53:27 - Shaun
I was in the gym with the whole time. Okay, so yeah, like when I was in the hole, like I do push-ups and dips off the bench or off the bed or whatever. You're allowed up to six books. So I take the six books, my pillow and everything and I put it in the pillow case and I'd curl it. Shit like that, all my hygiene, anything I get some weight into there. I'd roll up my bed and try to curl it like roll it up into a fucking ball so I could curl the bed too. Like, yeah, you get pretty innovative. 

0:54:02 - John
Yeah, I think you get some resistance. 

0:54:04 - Shaun
Yeah, yeah, I've had like different push-ups and shit like that. You know you work out for you don't have a clock or anything like that. You don't even know what fucking time it is. You just work out until you're just like I'm done with this and for me, I could take a daily shower. So when I get done with my workout, I just tap on the door like I want my shower now, you know, and they'll figure out how to give me the shower within the next hour. 

0:54:30 - John
Were you working out before you got locked up? No, no, so that is kind of what started getting you into it. That was yeah. 

0:54:37 - Shaun
So in 2006, when I got locked up in the county jail, I started working out then and then when I got to the joint, like I already knew, I've been to the joint before. So I just fell into a fucking lifting routine, like there's no free weights or not like that, it's all like nautilus machines and shit like that. So you just fall right in with the biggest group of guys, try to hang. I mean, that's what I did Not everyone did that. I just looked for the biggest dudes like hey, can I jump in, you know, and then hop in until you get staffed to a fucking joint. And you get staffed to a unit Like I was on unit six in Fox Lake. 

That was a unit I was on for most of my time and I just looked for the biggest dudes on the unit, like hey, can I work out with you guys? And I worked out with four of the biggest black dudes on the whole fucking joint. Here I am a hundred fucking 180 pound white dude. You know what I'm saying? They're like you're fucking crazy. So I kept up, kept going every fucking day and after like six months, kane, he had a life bed. He looked at me and he's like you know, we tried to kill you, right, sean? I'm like, what do you mean? He's like in the gym we wanted you to tap but you just kept coming back for it. Like that day that I went there I did legs with him. I never did legs before the next day I couldn't walk. 

0:56:06 - John
Like at all, like you know how it is. 

0:56:09 - Shaun
Like you know what I'm saying. Like, oh shit, you're holding onto the walls and I was on a top bunk, so I had to crawl off the top bunk and they were like he was like that day that you couldn't walk to the gym and you still made it. He's like we knew you were a tough motherfucker. 

0:56:27 - John
Because I mean, at that point that's probably like one of the only ways you can get some kind of like release. Oh yeah, 100%. 

0:56:33 - Shaun
And the rec area is really not. I mean, they're outside. They got a fucking mile long track baseball or softball, football, like basketball, everything you name it. They got it there. You know what I'm saying. They got a basketball court inside where I would watch the basketball. They'd have tournaments and shit like that, and then they had the weight room, like it was cool. It was way better than any gym in a high school. You know what I'm saying? 

0:57:01 - John
So was it like 2010, you got out 2000?. 

0:57:04 - Shaun
Yeah 2009. 

0:57:05 - John
2009, okay, and you were 29 then, yeah. Yeah okay, yeah, I was 29. So then, what got you into powerlifting? 

0:57:15 - Shaun
I just kept going to the gym and actually Heath, heath Hill remember him. Yeah oh yeah, he got me into powerlifting, no shit okay, yeah. 

So I was just going to like when I got out, I was going to like I had no money. I had money, but not enough, you know, and I didn't want to head back in to selling drugs and shit like that. So my best friend in the world is he was Mark. I called my brother, so he was living in Browneer off Browneer Road, like right behind where the Walmart used to be and the condos back there. He had bought a condo back there and I moved in with him and I went to the anytime fitness on Browneer Road and I'm like, is there any way that I could like because I don't have no money Like, is there a way that I could get a free membership? Like, and she's like no, I'm like what if I cleaned the bathrooms and did the vacuuming and blah, blah, this and that? And she's like let me talk to the owners. So it got me a free membership. All I had to do was clean the fucking gym twice a week. 

0:58:25 - John
Oh, no shit. 

0:58:25 - Shaun
Yeah, I didn't have a job at the time I was working doing the roofing shit still construction type shit I went back to the same guy that I was working for prior, but he was having kidney failure. So I didn't even get paid for the first cut, like he'd pay me here and there, and then like he owed me like five or six grand and I didn't have no money. So I had to take. I took all of his fucking, all of his equipment and I started up my own business. 

0:58:58 - John
That's how I started my own business too. Okay Cause I thought at one point I knew that you were did roofing on your with your own business and had your own employees. Yeah. 

0:59:05 - Shaun
Yeah, okay, that's how that started. Okay, well, you're. You're like, eventually he had kidney failure and he died, but I took all of like I had a van, all fucking five or six guns, ladders, racks, all this shit. I took everything. I needed two compressors, like everything I needed to start a fucking business, roofing business. I took from him because he didn't have money to pay me. I'm like, well, I gotta, I gotta make money some fucking how. You know what I'm saying so. So I took that. I didn't have no money. So now I had to go in Craigslist, ebay, looking for people like anyone to hire me. I got my own shit now. So, like, all you got to really do is subcontract me. You know what I'm saying. 

So one of his buddies reached out to me like, oh, you got all of Sir, what's old shit. He's like I'll. He's like I'll subcontract you. I'm like, thank fucking Christ. So now I'm starting to make a lot of money now because he's giving me jobs at the cost that he was giving him. But he used to charge. You know, he's only paid me 30 bucks an hour. You know, now I'm making $100 an hour. You know what I'm saying and doing most of the work yourself at that point At the beginning. 

But then I had. Then I found some older, pete, older clients. That older people, that older employees that used to work for him reached out to. They found me. So, I don't know, I met, I've seen them at a fucking Walmart and I'm like, oh hey, what's up? I was like you're looking for work. They're like, yeah, we need work. I'm like, fuck, yeah, here's my number, call me. I got a job coming up. So like, yeah, I just I had like seven or eight employees at the time. You know it's a really built up. Yeah, it went quick. 

Yeah, but keeping that shit like cause, like during, that was during the Obama years. So like it's kind of like how it is now. You know what I'm saying. It was hard to make money. You know, at first it was really great, but now it's just like fuck, it was hard to find the jobs, and then the jobs that you would find is be somebody subcontracting to you for nothing, because somebody else over here will undercut you to get the job. So you got to take what you get. You know what I'm saying. It's kind of like the trucking industry right now. The trucking industry right now is fucked. Everyone's undercutting each other, trying to get it for the cheapest bucks and nobody's making any fucking money. But they have to do it just to keep fucking food on the table. Yeah, that's like a way to survive. Exactly that's how the construction shit was, you know. I'm sure that's how it is now too, especially with prices of material, you know. 

So that only lasted for so long, but to your point, like, during that, I was always going to the gym, so I'd work all day long. I'd get done maybe five, six, seven o'clock at night, but anytime fitness, I could just go in anytime, you know. So once the work started slowing up, I started going to LA Fitness, because there was the other time where you could go and not it was a nicer gym. So I started going there and then I started going to fucking Animal House and out of fucking. That's when I met Heath and that's when I well, even when I was at but I was still going to fucking in anytime fitness because they gave me a job as a trainer at some point. Through all this, I got the certificate through like ACE or something, I don't know. It was like a couple hundred bucks. 

1:02:25 - John
Yeah, you can make money training people. 

1:02:28 - Shaun
Yeah, I was like, well, this is a lot easier than like, with everything going on, like losing jobs here and there, Like you got to supplement somehow, you know. So yeah, it's just started doing that. That's really when I got into like the coaching and the training. Heath taught me how to power lift. I don't even know how that happened either. He just hit me up one. I hit him up. I was like yeah, I want to bench 405, dude. I was like, can you help me do that? He's like why aren't you doing it already? 

I'm like I don't know, man, I just haven't done it, but I want to. So that's really what got me into it and cause I was just the you know, I was all show muscles at the time. He's like well, if you want to get strong enough to lose the fucking abs, I'm like what do you mean? I was like I like my abs, he's like. He was like. He's like yeah, they don't mean you're strong, though. I'm like all right. He's like well, how do I do that? He's just eat worse. I'm like that's kind of conducive to working out, though, right, he's like, depends on what kind of working out you're talking about. 

1:03:32 - John
I'm like that's what your goals are yeah, you want to get strong. Yeah, eat high calorie dense foods. 

1:03:39 - Shaun
Yeah, so I said I'm like holy fuck, so I can eat like shit and still work out with this. So that was kind of like the the turn on a powerlifting. I'm like, okay, I'll jump into this, this sounds fun. 

1:03:52 - John
So, like, do you know, like what year you started coming to Animal House? 2013 maybe, and that would line up with when I met you for the first time. Yeah, yeah, I was like towards the end of my college years. 

1:04:05 - Shaun
Yeah, coming out to Animal House. Yeah, you're still in college. 

1:04:08 - John
I remember that. Yeah, actually I remember. I remember the first fucking time I ever I can't even say I met you, just saw you in person. I was in the locker room at Animal House getting ready for like a squat day and you know, I used to think I was a pretty like not that I thought I was like a tough guy, but like I was, like I was big, I was strong, I like felt confident enough in my strength, and all that, and Animal House had a lot of just you know bodybuilders, a lot of like pretty boy, muscle guys. 

1:04:36 - Shaun
Yeah, definitely. 

1:04:37 - John
You know the kind of guys like yeah, they're big, but like they're not, like intimidating and show muscles. 

1:04:41 - Shaun
Yeah, yeah. 

1:04:43 - John
And I remember one day I'm in the locker room getting ready and here comes in you and you throw down your bag, you sit on the bench and as soon as you walk to the locker room, you're just like fuck, this guy's got a presence to him. It's like I don't want to like say intimidating necessarily. It's not, you weren't trying to be intimidating but like this is not a guy that anybody should be fucking with. Like you, you, you seemed harder, you seemed a little rougher on the edges. I remember I think you were like trying to, you were scooping some pre-workout and you're like clearing your throat and I was like yeah, and I was like all right, this guy, this guy seems a little intense. 

And it was probably like not too much longer after, like one day, we must must have been like squatting next to each other and you asked him to spot you. I'm like a heavy squat. And then we just kept talking about powerlifting and that's kind of where the friendship built up and we just, you know, next thing, you know, I see I've started seeing it. Every powerlifting meet, seeing you all over the fucking strongman competitions. You'd be there and shit like that. 

1:05:34 - Shaun
But uh, yeah, cause you did strongman for a little bit too. Yeah, a little bit of time, yeah. 

1:05:39 - John
Cause. That's how I met Heath too, because he would run the uh Summer Fett Strongman, yeah, yeah. I remember the first time I watched him compete there, I was like I want to do that. That motherfucker's big and strong. I'm going to go talk to him. Right, yeah, but yeah, okay. So 2013 is when you came to Animal. 

1:05:52 - Shaun
House. Yeah, that was when I started going to Animal House because I was going to LA Fitness. I think you know him too, anthony Gilbert. Yeah, yeah, that's where I met Anthony and him and I were pretty close. And Ness Ness was that fucking LA Fitness Ashley and all them, you know Tim Thompson. 

1:06:13 - John
Yeah. 

1:06:14 - Shaun
Yeah, so I met everyone. Actually, that's kind of like the catalyst of like there and then going over to fucking Animal House, you know. 

1:06:22 - John
Yeah, because the thing was like 2014 was when we started the fat fuck for life. Yeah, we started going to the buffet. Oh yeah, clear out the Potawatomi buffet. 

1:06:32 - Shaun
Oh they don't even have the buffet, no more. 

1:06:34 - John
They don't. 

1:06:35 - Shaun
No, they shut it down after COVID. Shit, fuck, that buffet was good. It was Because my buddy Jason goes to a pot all the time. He's into like the parlays and the gambling on sports and shit and I'm like I'll come with you, I'll go to the buffet. He's like, oh, they don't even got it. I'm like, oh, it hurt my heart, damn. 

1:06:54 - John
God damn, that was a good buffet, it really was, you could eat prime rib crab legs. 

1:06:59 - Shaun
Yeah, that was good. Yeah, but they got a cafe there, now Canal Street Cafe. They do like liquor coffee drinks. It's kind of. I went there the other day. I got Irish coffee. It was pretty fucking good. 

1:07:13 - John
Pretty good. Okay, fuck, that's funny. So they close the buffet, open up a little liquor cafe. Yeah, right, yeah. 

1:07:19 - Shaun
And they have a big assy in there now too, like before it used to be like a hometown thing. Now They've beefed it up. 

1:07:26 - John
Yeah, I mean I think because we had we'd gone there back before they did all those renovations and really revamped the whole place. 

1:07:32 - Shaun
Yeah, the upstairs is all done now. They got a whole bar and restaurants upstairs now. It's pretty nice in there. I'm not going to gamble, though, no. 

1:07:41 - John
Now how Lose my money on shit that I want to lose it on? Yeah, exactly, the construction business. Then was kind of the first time that you had your own business. Yeah, right, okay. And would you say, like you feel like there was a point where, like your self-worth started, like you started feeling a change, you started realizing I have more self-worth than I gave my credit, gave myself credit for that. Like I have a place in life, I have a, I have a path in life that I can put more, more into and that I can build on. Now where, like you, because you know, since those years now, you've continually built up, you've bought more businesses and built more businesses and you know I've seen you just kind of expand more and more, like I met, like, from my point of view, it seems then, based off what you said, that like that self-worth has to have developed with that a little bit, or has it not? 

1:08:37 - Shaun
I mean, I think it has, and I think in powerlifting has a lot to do with it. Like a lot Want to say, I couldn't pinpoint the actual like when I started to like feel better about myself. I think it was more so of just let it go. You know, just not caring. You know as much as not caring what people thought of me, just being myself. Like fuck it, this is who I am. You know what I'm saying. If you don't like it, fuck off. You know what I'm saying. 

Instead of thinking about like who am I? Where do I come from? What is this person going to think of me? You know, trying to hold back who I was and trying to make other people think some sort of think, something of me that I didn't know if I wanted them to think or not. And I think the powerlifting actually helped that a lot because I could actually just be myself. 

There's a bunch of degenerates I'm like I fit in here, like you know, everyone, just no one really. They're all just big and strong and they don't care about anything else. It's just the commonality of getting strong, and whoever you are doesn't even fucking matter. You know what I'm saying and I think that helped a lot with me realizing, like fuck it, this is who I am. I'm just going to be whoever I am. I'm just going to act who I am, exactly who I am. 

I think that really just let go like fuck it. I mean, yeah, they still think like I still, like we talked earlier about, who am I? Where do I come from? My actual, my blood father, like that lineage. I still want to get into that. But like the self-worth part, I think, kind of just went out the window when I'm just like I just let go like fuck it. You know, I'm just going to do what I want to do when I want to do it how I want to do it. You want to stay along for the ride, cool, if you don't fuck off, I don't care. Like I let go of everything, I let go of caring. I'm just like this is me, this is what I'm doing. 

1:10:52 - John
Yeah, it's worked, would you say, like with powerlifting. I really like powerlifting. I didn't do it a lot because there was this empowerment to this idea that, like, when I played sports in high school, it didn't matter how much I thought I was out efforting everybody and working harder, like if my coaches didn't think I was, you know, they don't want to start me, they didn't start me. Yeah, in powerlifting there's this idea, right, that like and this is also why I wrestled, and I liked wrestling more than football at the end of the day, because if I wanted to take the starting varsity spot at 171 or 189, I had to just beat the it's all on your work ethic. 

1:11:26 - Shaun
Yes, exactly. 

1:11:28 - John
So for you getting into powerlifting and seeing like hey, I want to squat more or I want to bench more, I want to deadlift more. I literally just need to put in more work and I will get it. Eventually, you just have to put in the work. Was there like an empowerment that you felt from that as well, Like as you got into that and like because I mean, you kept getting so much stronger from the time I met you in 2013 and so on and so forward that was you obviously is directly correlated to the time that you continue to put into the gym and lift. How would you say, like, was there an influence for you there of like, feeling that and how that like poured into other parts of your life? 

1:12:04 - Shaun
Yeah, I guess you could say, yeah, you do. Oh, yeah, you keep hitting PRs, you still get, you're getting bigger and stronger and you feel better about yourself. Yeah, for sure, it did have some of the similar aspects of that I felt when I was playing hockey, you know, because people recognized me for hockey, you know I was starting captain. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All this I really was. No, I was a captain. I didn't want to be captain, so I denied that. I didn't want that responsibility. Just let me play the fucking game right. But at Freshman I was a second best center in the nation. You know what I'm saying. So that felt I was always like, I always got gratification from sports and during the time, like, for a long time I didn't have that. You know what I'm saying. 

So when I got into powerlifting, that did make me feel good, especially like, like you said, when you see me in the locker room, like, oh, he's got a presence, people recognize me for that. You know what I'm saying. You get that, the recognition like, oh, that's Sean, he's strong, you know. Yeah, it makes you feel good. You know what I'm saying. But that's not what I was doing it for. But I did realize that, like that is positive reinforcement that makes you feel like, okay, I'm doing something right, like it definitely plays on your self-worth, like you feel better about it. I definitely felt better about myself, especially when I, you know, Like, even with you, like and this goes for all powerlifting like you, your PR. 

When you hit a PR on the gym and you're like I never did that before, everyone around he's like fuck, yeah, that was awesome. You know what I'm saying. No one's like well, I did more than that. No, no, people focused on you and what you did and they're happy for you and how you did it. Yes, you know what I'm saying. And I think that is probably the best thing about powerlifting because, no matter what, what the weight is on the bar, if you PR, you PR and everyone's fucking happy for you if you do you Like, let's say you you bottomed out on a squat. You should, you should have fell over, but you powered through it. You got it like holy fuck, that was impressive, that was awesome, you did that. You know what I'm saying. 

1:14:21 - John
Like shit, like that, like there's not too many things in this world that you could, you know, compared to that, you know so that's so true, like when you think about that, like You've been in powerlifting gyms for long enough now too that like you know, like it doesn't matter if you watch a guy Deadlift or squad a thousand pounds or multi, or you're watching a younger girl Lifting something. That's a PR. But you know it's a PR for you. Just watch her struggle through it and you knew that six months or a year ago she was no where you watch her do it and you? 

you can't help but feel like you got so goddamn jacked up. Yeah, because you really do just care that, like somebody else, just beat their own PR oh doesn't matter what it compares to anybody else's. It's just it uses you up and you get that same energy when others cheer you on, oh yeah that they are now happy that you hit your PR 100%. 

1:15:16 - Shaun
Like Steve Brock in my gym. He Flips out and screams and he's so happy for it like I've never seen him Happy for any of his lips. But let you PR and he's jumping up and down slapping you. He is the happiest person in the room for you. You know what I'm saying. Like and I think that's one of the the special things about powerlifting, like and I think that's one of the reasons why I really got into it, which I'm sure it was for you too like is that camaraderie? You know what I'm saying. Obviously, through through the years, you see some political bullshit and people talk shit. You know, you know, for whatever reason, like you, a Multi-ply lifting, single-ply lifting, you didn't hit squad depth. Oh yeah, touch a go bench. You know, whatever you want, you know people are gonna touch it eventually. You know I'm saying for whatever reason, but I think the the mean I Aspect of it is just the camaraderie of it. You know that feels good. 

1:16:24 - John
And I do, like you know pretty much very much pertaining to men's mental health. You know, that's one thing I think we you would probably agree on is, like Mental health for men really revolves around feeling like we're part of a group of other men and then we, like, suffer together. 

1:16:41 - Shaun
Suffer or we have joy together. Yeah, I mean, we're worth something to you, I'm worth something to you, you're worth something to me. 

1:16:48 - John
And whether we like we did some hard training, we started to do it and now we get to reap the benefits and the joy together 100%. You show up to me and you both PR, you both hit your lifts like yeah, I mean that we, we almost like Need that for us to feel Truly like happy and like feel like a good mental presence. I think the poverty community and a lot of times with even just within small part of things, jim's like people get like that's where part of it really get, yeah, and it's, I think it's so huge. 

1:17:15 - Shaun
I? I seen a t-shirt the other day that said the gym is my psych ward. I don't like. I like that a lot because it really is. Yeah, that's our, that's our therapy. Yeah, if you break it down, if you don't go, if you don't see a therapist, I'm not that, no, that shit. You know I'm saying this is your only outlet, this is your therapy. It's definitely a great tool. It's probably one of the things that has kept me alive and not dead with a needle in my arm or fucking shot or In prison for the rest of my life, like par listening definitely has. Just the gym in general, as it probably saved me from a lot of shit. 

1:17:59 - John
I mean outside of the camaraderie too you have. 

1:18:02 - Shaun
It puts such tangible, reachable goals that you're constantly working towards yeah, yeah, I mean, you don't have to make them like I got a squatted 700 today and I got a squat 800 tomorrow. Now, three weeks from now, hopefully we'll get 705 or 710. Yep, you know what I'm saying. Like it's the journey. 

1:18:20 - John
Yeah, like a little incremental when your progression over time, which is, you know, it's interesting because I'd be curious what you're putting on this too, like I think in the Bodybuilder community you get so much less of that. There's less camaraderie, I think so, and there's much more like lone wolf-ness of like they're at the gym lone wolf style, yeah, hitting their sets, set after set. They don't have like the camaraderie that you do work like all right, you just did your set of bench, strip the weight. Like put this on for the next guy, all right, put this weight on for the next person. Like there's, yeah, I don't. 

1:18:50 - Shaun
I don't see any bodybuilding crews. 

1:18:52 - John
No, exactly. Yes, that's ours. The crews are all over the place, all over. 

1:18:56 - Shaun
They show up in packs to the to meets, and every gym has their own crews. Yeah, yeah. 

1:19:03 - John
Oh, and we're like acting bodybuilding. That's why you get a lot more depressed. Yeah, bodybuilders with mental health issues? Oh, yeah and definitely worth issues. 

1:19:14 - Shaun
I mean, you got to look at it too. It's all about image. Yep, that's that plays heavily on your fucking mindset. You know, like power lifters, like we're fat, we're out of shape All we want to do is be strong, lift heavy weights. Yeah, the image is gone. 

1:19:31 - John
You little I. I feel like I used to like, really care about like certain things before I got into power with thing and then when I got, like I used to like the biggest things. I can tell you, when I got, I started wearing more actual Our shirts. I didn't give a shit. My beard was big and burly, like I just wanted to lift heavy and get big. I didn't give a shit about anything else. There's a freeing thought to it. You know there was some negative consequences with that too. I beat the shit out of my body unnecessarily. Some of that was also just, you know, knowledge that now was more available about how to train, how to like properly recover and stuff like that, where, if you push a little too hard back in the day and you didn't have some of that knowledge you could have, yeah, you know, put yourself back a little bit, but you know that's. That's besides the point of the fact that like it still comes back to that. 

So what through power thing through the years now is like you've continued to own businesses and this process of letting go. I mean, there's this book called letting go. I can't think of author. I know what you're talking about. Yeah, it's a pretty thing. I think it's got to be very famous because it elucidates whole idea of like, if you want to learn how to be happy in life, you want to learn how to move on, you have to let go and it's funny because, like I'm a, I'm a believer that like generational trauma and like life trauma, yeah, can really hold you back and it can like really talk 

with you and like it's, it's valid, it is 100% a real thing. Generational trauma is a drill thing. I think if your, if your grandparents were very hard on your parents, your parents couldn't help it end up being hard on you. 

And if you don't like, end up kind of realizing why they were hard on you, like it can continue to happen, and but that that doesn't take away the fact that we have our own self ability to say like hey, I said enough, yeah, and we live in an age where information is so readily available that, like there is a point where you can, you have to kind of make a decision I'm I gonna let go and move forward or am I gonna continue to like be stuck in my patterns, in my ways, and Not let my life improve? Yeah, so Would you say there was not, like there was fine, like was anything specific that helped you to really start letting go, or was it just Happened and continue to like be an incremental thing that you were unaware of till you were just aware that, holy shit, like I have let go of a lot of stuff that I didn't realize I had let go of. 

1:21:44 - Shaun
It kind of disappeared, like you, like I didn't realize it. But a particular point where you're talking about the generational shit, right, the generational trauma or whatever happened to your family happened to you know, down the line and just you know, get stumped on you. I wanted to touch on that a little bit because that's what struck me in that, because this, this might answer your question inadvertently. So I don't remember the point exactly, but I do remember that there was a point where I Thought to myself I don't want to be like my parents. I Don't know when it was, but that was just like I do. I do not want to work. I don't want to work 45 fucking years to get Social Security, to retire for five to ten. You know what I'm saying. I didn't want to be that person. I don't want to put that strain on my, my, my psyche. I think it. I Wanted to do it my way. You know what I'm saying. That's why I Own the businesses, that's why I Do the actual entrepreneurial thing. I Think, because they're in factories and foundries and shit like that their whole life and like, don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with that. You can make a. Really my parents make pretty good fucking money now. Back then we didn't make shit because they were just peons, but now they're. You know my dad drives truck and and my mom she'd actually just retired but she was like a Managereal positions, you know, through the foundries, but still it's the foundries. I don't want to be dirty. You know I dress nice. This I go to work. You know what I'm saying. Like I don't want to like Even with my newer businesses, like I have two things that are there in the in the process. One of them, I won't be dirty at all. The other one is I'm just gonna plow people's yard during snow. I just got two plow trucks. So do you, I I'm gonna plow. You know well my spare time. You know when it snows why not? I needed to plow, to plow my fucking my. They don't plow my neighborhood. You know what I'm saying. So I'm gonna plow my fucking for the whole neighborhood. I'm just gonna plow my fucking the street in front, the side streets and our alley and everyone's driveways, just to keep the neighborhood fucking nice. I'm my pit, my fucking neighbors gonna love me for it. I have to do it anyway. So I'm gonna just you know what I'm saying like I don't do anything off of the neighbors. This I'll plow everything. You guys just get the sidewalks. You know what I'm saying. Like there should be a fair deal, you know. But people will love that. You know what I'm saying. Like, you know, I'll do that and then, and then I'm gonna just post on Facebook I anyone these shitplow 50 bucks, come get it. You know, let them drop your address. I'll be right there to be $50 cash. You know what I'm saying. 

I Don't sleep much, so if it's snowing and I'm supposed to be sleeping, I might as well go fucking make some money. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. But I'm sure I'm gonna get sweaty and dirty from that. But I've been sweating and dirty from like actual work in a long time. You know what I'm saying. So, but that, put to my point, is there's something that I want to do anyway, so I'm gonna make it. So I'm making money off of it, and that's the thing too. Like powerlifting, it was something that I wanted to do anyway, so I'm gonna figure out a way to make money off it. 

Like coaching I love, love the car, love coaching more than I love the actual lifting. So it might make sense to get some money off. I don't make a lot of money because I don't think it should cost that much. You know what I'm saying. I Think a lot of the coaches are just fucking scam artists, so they don't give a fuck about the people, they just want the dollar. And I don't want to be that guy like. I care more About you than you paying me. You know what I'm saying. Paying you, paying me is just Something that's cool to happen through this. You know what I'm saying. 

1:25:28 - John
Yeah. 

1:25:30 - Shaun
Yeah, it keeps the doors open on my gym, but like that, I think, was Me letting go. It's like I don't want to be like them. I'm gonna do me. You know what I'm saying. I couldn't even tell you when it happened, probably when I first got that fucking truck from sir the Terry sir, what the guy used to work for, and I just took it over. You know, and I'm just like this is what I'm doing now, you know. Yeah, I Don't know if that answered your question at all. No, no, it does. It does a little bit maybe. 

1:26:09 - John
So then and this is the next question from here is I Don't know if it really relates to this as much, but so how long have you now been with Bobby? Six years, six years, would you say. Like. Has there been any growth for you being and what seems to me like a very you, a very healthy relationship? 

1:26:28 - Shaun
Yeah, yeah, how is that for the most part? 

1:26:30 - John
Yeah, yeah, I mean, every relationship has something. Now is no relationships perfect, but, um, how's that been for you? You know like, and I'm assuming, good six years with Bobby, the longest you've had. Oh god, yes, okay, okay. So how has that been like? 

1:26:46 - Shaun
by far. Five years, okay. So yeah, let's do it. So it's a big and it's the only healthy relationship I've ever been in. You know, for the most part we have pretty good communication. 

1:26:58 - John
I mean, obviously I'm a guy, so there we're all gonna have a little communication between us and women. 

1:27:04 - Shaun
Yeah, you know what was the question, though. 

1:27:08 - John
So how do you, how do you feel like that, that relationship now that's? You know, you've been with her for six years and it's a healthy relationship. How is that played into your growth and your ability to continue letting go and like Living this life where self-worth is not this thing that you think about anymore and that you feel like holds you back. She pushes me. 

1:27:28 - Shaun
Okay, but she don't. She don't realize it, but she does. 

1:27:32 - John
When I first got with her. 

1:27:34 - Shaun
I was just coaching, still like I didn't get I've a fine. I didn't find a business that I really wanted to like delve into yet, and so I was just coaching. And then I got a job at 80m American defense okay, making a mounts and optics for guns. I needed insurance to get my blood worked on, my kidneys taken care of, get a CPAP machine and and I didn't want to pay for insurance. So they offered insurance but I could all I have to do. They're assumed that the company is actually really good. 

They didn't really Check you on, had to be there on time every day. You can leave. I'm gonna leave a little bit early today. They didn't really there. Aren't too like on you about that shit. So I'm like, well, that fits me pretty well because I gotta go, I gotta train. He did that this time. I got you know I gotta eat at this time. You know you could eat right at my desk. So I'm like, okay, I got my buddy Austin. He was my supervisor. So I'm like, hey, how does it actually work? I was like See, he's because I was coaching Austin and he's like you looking for a job. I'm like I'm looking for a job, but he's like. And then he was like he's like, well, we're looking for people, if you, if you Like. I was like, wait, you guys offer insurance. He's like, yeah, I'm like, all right, break down the day. I like you gotta, you gotta, pitch me on this, cuz I really don't want to work. You know what I'm? 

saying yeah, yeah he's like well, you can really do whatever you want. You listen to your music, put your fucking YouTube video up and watch that while you're working and eat whenever you want. I'm like, all right, this sounds okay. I'm like, what about times, though? Like what time do I have to be there and when can I leave? And he's like, well, he's like why. I'm like like, well, is it like, am I gonna get fired? This thing, you know? Like I don't want to be a position where I'm just, you know, you're on my ass. You know what I'm saying. He's like. He's like, he's like, dude, I'm gonna be your supervisor, you can pretty much do whatever the fuck you want. Oh, okay, I was like, all right, I'll take your job. 

So I worked there for a little bit, and Working there made me realize that I really do not want a fucking job ever again. I worked there for a year, got all my blood worked on maybe a little bit over a year, and I had invested money into another business venture that was making a lot of money. So I didn't have to have this fucking job like at all. I didn't have to do this. 

But I got my insurance and I got my blood work done, got my kidneys figured out, I got medication, I got my CPAP machine. And then I'm like, and I came to do the reviews and and I'm like, well, if they're not gonna give me this amount of money, I'm just walking out. And they gave me two dollars less than what my I'm like. So I took the, I took my tat, my I had a week vacation, so I took my week vacation. I came back for the day after that so my week vacation would get paid, and then I didn't go back ever again and then I just went into that business that I and that was the last time you probably worked for somebody else. 

Yes, 100%, okay, yep, um. And then, two years after that is when I got involved in the the tattoo shop. Okay, yeah, maybe a year after that I'm about to. Oh, no, it was a year. No, it was a year. Yeah, because the, the investment that I invested in, was paying off. I would probably Probably 9% per year. Okay, so it was pretty good. I invested a substantial amount, so I was getting good money off of it In, uh, so I really didn't have to work out. I think that's fine. But then the tattoo shop came, came across my plate. He, uh, he was like, hey, I'm looking for a partner and blah, blah, I'm like, well, what about the books? Let me see what it looks like. And, uh, so I made him offer on, on, uh, a buy-in and he accepted it. So I went into that and that taught me a lot. Tell me a lot about the corporate, not a corporate, but um, the uh, uh, uh, shit. 

1:32:11 - John
Like the Like the business side of the service industry. Okay. 

1:32:15 - Shaun
Tell me a lot about the service. I don't get me wrong. I was bouncing a lot, so I knew that aspect of the service industry, but I didn't know how to deal with the actual people. You know what I'm saying. And deal with the banks. You know what I'm saying. Like I mean, I've dealt with banks before, I've had business accounts before. But but construction is different than fucking Like. This is like it's a little different. 

1:32:38 - John
You know what I'm saying like being a subcontracting as a construction as opposed to a business Structure. Would a brick and mortar business? 

1:32:46 - Shaun
Yeah, yeah, brick and mortar, yeah, um, yeah, like service industry type shit Like, and so it's a different. It's a different, different vibe, it's a different aspect. Granite, yeah, it's all business. You can all make it work. You can just hop in and figure it the fuck out, which I did, you know, um, but learning the ins and outs of the tattoo industry was pretty fucking cool. I really really like that and I really appreciate the opportunity that frank gave me for that. Um, it was, uh, it was a really cool thing. I'm out of it now. Um, him and I, oh, we're gonna sit down and talk about you know, he's gonna take that the wearer he wants to take it. That's his baby. The tattoo shop was his. You know what I'm saying. I have other things that I want to do. Okay, so you're getting out of work class. 

1:33:35 - John
Yeah, yeah. 

1:33:36 - Shaun
I still say go there, think a great artist, you know it's, it's. The vibe of the shop is awesome, uh all the work you guys did on it. 

1:33:44 - John
Yeah, a lot of renovations. 

1:33:46 - Shaun
It's, it's beautiful in there and, uh, it's definitely a really good tattoo shop. It'll do really good things, um, and they have great artists, um. Um, there's just other things in my life that I want to do other than tattoo stuff. You know what I'm saying, so it's, it's where I'm at, you know, um. 

1:34:07 - John
So so did bobby kind of push you a little bit to get into that stone and like push you to the tattoo shop, but like to be like. Like get out of your comfort zone. 

1:34:17 - Shaun
Yes, she didn't really inadvertently she would push me. She didn't know she was doing it. Okay, like I just felt like I had to be better for her and I never felt that with a woman before. So when I felt that I was like, well, this has got to mean something you know what I'm saying like, yeah, so why would I turn my back to that? You know what I'm saying. So I just I ran with that feeling and uh, and developing options and ways in my mind of just looking at things differently, like okay, I could do this, this, this. Why don't I try that? That looks like it could make some money. You know what I'm saying. 

I mean, I've lost money too. I made a couple of bad decisions where I've lost the substantial amount like bad investments. It should happen. It's part of the fucking business. It's part of the business. It is what it is. But for the most part, like you know, I want to get into real estate. I have started up a t-shirt company which will be dropping soon, and the real estate thing like Airbnb and stuff. Like we own our home now, so that's nice and I'll have it paid off within the next year or two. I've paid it off in five years. That's awesome. 

I never knew like how interest built until they sat me down and I looked at that shit. I'm like what's this big number down here? They're like, oh, that's what you're going to pay in total, after everything's paid for. I'm like that's more than twice what I agreed upon. I'm like, oh, that's because of all the APR. I'm like that's not cool with me. I'm like, so how do I get it down to this? They're like well, you got to pay a lot of months. I'm like I'll do that. 

1:36:13 - John
You got to get that principle down quick. 

1:36:16 - Shaun
So I did the math on five years. I'm like I can justify this. You know what I'm saying. I'll pay it off in five years and I already got half of it paid off, so I'm good. 

1:36:28 - John
Well, so, like you had said earlier how you're willing to deal with the consequences of your actions, you're willing to sit there and deal with them. But what kind of got to you in the past was, like you know, it's hurting your family. Like now with Bobby. Like all of a sudden you kind of you're saying like you kept looking for more opportunities and more ventures because now you started seeing, like how your actions were affecting somebody else that you very much cared about in your life and how much more directly it would affect her. Like is that kind of how she inadvertently kept pushing you to want to do more. 

1:37:03 - Shaun
Maybe that was it, yeah yeah, because she's part of my life. 

1:37:06 - John
Yeah, it's like every good thing that comes to your life. 

1:37:09 - Shaun
Creating a good life for her or I creates a good life for both of us. You know, like buying the house, like having nice cars, doing cool, going on trips and vacations, shit like that. She loves that shit. I like it too. Yeah, I like the cars more than going on vacations, but she seems to like the cars as well. She loves cars, yeah. 

1:37:30 - John
Yeah, but I do think there's something very big there about like, when you have a life partner, you realize like now I want to be better, not just for me, but for them too. 

1:37:42 - Shaun
Yeah, 100%. 

1:37:43 - John
And it's for the same reason, I think they'll say like doing acts of, like charity ends up making me feel better than like doing things for yourself. It's the same way that, like when you do things because it's not just for you anymore, it feels better because you're not just doing it for you anymore, definitely. 

1:37:57 - Shaun
Yeah, that's why I got into the coaching high school powerlifting. I did that for a couple of years. That was super fuck. I think that's one of the things that had me falling in love with. Powerlifting too is like because you can do stuff like that and I just accepted. That's cool, you know what I'm saying? And charity work like that, like the relentless thing I did too, the shit like that is cool. Giving back, like to give back. 

1:38:33 - John
Yeah, I think a little bit more about your work with relentless and your work with like it's with autism, right, and like the kids with autism, yeah, right, okay, could you talk about that a little? 

1:38:43 - Shaun
bit. The relentless thing was I was offered the opportunity to lift in the meat 2016 or 2017. I don't remember exactly, but it's a foundation through Hope Kids that uses a powerlifting meat to generate funds for families with kids that have cancer and other life threatening illnesses, where each, if you get the invite, it's a $500 minimum that you have to raise and get your own charity page and you can share it. Whatever you just try to generate people to donate to your page for the kids, basically, and then when you do the meat, the kids are all on the stage the cheering you on, and some of them, I think, in Stich Schreit, yeah, yeah, and Maybe even something like that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1:48:21 - John
Yeah. 

1:48:59 - Shaun
Yeah. 

1:49:34 - John
Yeah. 

1:50:00 - Shaun
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. 

1:52:49 - John
Yeah, yeah. 

1:53:58 - Shaun
Yeah. 

1:54:40 - John
Yeah, yeah. 

1:55:32 - Shaun
Yeah, yeah. 

1:56:24 - John
Yeah. 

1:56:57 - Shaun
Yeah, yeah. 

1:58:07 - John
Yeah. 

1:58:25 - Shaun
Yeah, yeah. 

1:59:17 - John
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. 

2:01:04 - Shaun
Like there is any way that they could benefit from it. They should probably listen to themselves. If you really honestly think you're not gonna benefit from it, then don't do it, but if you think you can benefit anything from it, fucking do it. That's a good point because, otherwise you're not gonna be receptive to it. 

2:01:20 - John
That's a very good point. If you don't believe you're gonna be, you're gonna benefit. There's your brains that are not gonna let you be open enough to it. 

2:01:28 - Shaun
Yeah, you got to be in the right spot. You know, like I've seen, I've gone through three plus years of fucking therapies and programs and bullshit, just on bullshit, on bullshit. I didn't want to be in. I never, you know, did I gain a lot of knowledge from it. Maybe, but I wasn't receptive to it. I didn't use it. It was only until I saw this lady out that I actually implemented anything that she has that fucking talk to me about, and that's probably one of the reasons why I did this. She was the only one that I wanted to talk to, to be honest, because I was just to the point where I just needed for myself and I wanted it for myself. 

Other times it was forced on me by the courts. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, I don't want to do that shit. I don't want to go to AODA class Fuck, do I look like? You know what I'm saying? Like I got to do this program to get out of prison early. I did 10 and a half months at boot camp. It was rational, thinking, criminal thinking. Aoda all day long. It's eight hours a day, eight hours a day for 10 and a half months. You're gonna resent that. I don't want to do this. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. And then I went back and I did a three month program for six hours a day of AODA and criminal thinking. I get out, I have to do six months of fucking AODA Each time I got out, I had to do six months of AODA afterwards. What is AODA? Alcohol and other drug abuse program? Okay, okay, yeah, so you can do the math on that. That's a lot of fucking programming. 

2:02:53 - John
Yeah, I think I've done enough programming and it's shit that you didn't volunteer to do it. You were told to do it yeah, exactly. Yeah, you're gonna be not receptive to that. 

2:03:04 - Shaun
Yeah, that's what I learned. Like, it doesn't matter, you guys put me through all this bullshit, I ain't gonna fucking learn unless I want to learn. It's the same thing as like school, you know? Like, yeah, okay, I can read about the presidents. Do I really give a fuck about it? No, am I ever gonna use this? No, because I don't want to. You know, if I wanted to be an English teacher or something like that, then yeah, I'll need this. But you know what I'm saying? Like yeah for sure, if I don't want to get sober, I'm not gonna need this. 

2:03:32 - John
Yeah, I mean that's a big right. Most people who get very addicted to something or become alcoholics, they have to. They almost, you almost have to hit some type of rock bottom to get better again. Otherwise, if you still think that it's the better, the better alternative is to go back to drinking or to go back to the drug. 

2:03:50 - Shaun
You're gonna fucking do it. You're gonna find a way. Yeah, yeah, that's a thing, though, too. If you want to bet enough, you're gonna find a way to do it or not to do it. It's a fine line right there, especially Attic there's. That line is very fucking thin, and you're tab dancing on that motherfucker the whole time. 

2:04:06 - John
Yeah, I think addiction and addiction recovery is such an understated thing, especially in this country, especially where we went through with the whole opioid epidemic oh, jesus Christ, you know, and I personally commend people that have gone through addictions of harder drugs and have been able to come back from it and spend time sober and like reflect back on it. It's not easy. No, I mean, I think it's beyond not easy. I think it puts you into this place where, like most normal people who've never dealt with it and never had some terminal in their life that caused them to go down that road and then have to get back from it, they just they can't comprehend the strength and like the perseverance it takes to get back from that because for the rest of your life you're gonna have that fucking voice and like, for the rest of your life you can't really ever let your guard down. Yeah, and there's so many people out there who can live these like blissful lives and let their guards down and, like I, drink every once in a while. 

I do this every once in a while but, I, have control of it, like to understand what an addiction means, and like the way that that takes over your brain and the fact that you have to battle that every fucking day. And even that battle gets easier over time, it's still a battle every day. Yeah, that it's. People don't appreciate it, and I think I really commend people that have been able to do that and get through it. So I mean I, yeah, that's. I think that's huge. 20 years is fucking, you know, almost 20 years. 18 years is fucking. That's that's awesome and I think that's. It builds a lot of character that you can't, that you can't build otherwise, and I'm not that you, not that you want to build that here, but it's. 

You have it now. It's there and it's very much part of your personality and it's going to continue to push you to be better. Oh yeah. 

2:05:49 - Shaun
And I think that actually did push me the most Like, because it's always a monkey on your back. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Like at any given time, I can fucking fold. 

2:06:01 - John
But it gives you this like point in time to look back on and be like look, how much better I am, yeah, look at what I've done and how much more, how much more I've moved forward and how much more I can still move forward, definitely, plus how many fucking people have lost that battle. You know way more have lost it than wanted. 

2:06:18 - Shaun
Just concede you better off. 

2:06:20 - John
Yeah. 

2:06:21 - Shaun
And you're not going to win. Yeah, it's not, it's not, it's not a winning battle. Yeah, you got to concede and be like okay, you got this, you won. 

2:06:32 - John
Well, fuck, man, I really appreciate you coming in, doing this, doing this today. This was a great conversation, I think, a lot of great things that, like, people will have something to learn from and to appreciate, because you've you've been, you've been through a lot and I think you have a very you know what's like. There's that there's a quote about this or like the more turmoil, like the more you've been through in life and I don't know the exact quote, but like the more there's a there's stories and chapters in your book, right, oh yeah, and you, you have all these chapters and they've. I'm sure some of those times are fucking hell, but you're all the better for it now and I think that's cool. I think a lot of people can like learn from that and like take something away from that. Hopefully, yeah, a lot of men can learn a lot about what that means to be down and get back up eventually. 

2:07:23 - Shaun
Yeah, well. Well, I don't know what the quote is either, but it's something like every time you get knocked down. If you get back up, like there's only one way to go, so it's always up. Yeah, you know, all you got to do is get up. It's that simple. 

2:07:42 - John
And getting up to skill. Yeah, you learn how to get that. You develop qualities and characteristics that make you better at getting up. Every time you get back down, definitely yeah, and eventually yeah, you never really win the battle, but you learn how to have much more control of the war. That's life, yeah, okay. Well, thank you again. I really appreciate it. Thank you guys for tuning in for another episode of On Turned Stones. If you enjoyed this, like and subscribe and follow the page. Otherwise, have a great day, all right fuck yeah, brother, that's awesome, I really fucking appreciate it. 

Transcribed by https://podium.page